The View February 19th Recap: Laurence Fishburne and Make-up under $10
Today scheduled guests on Today on The View, all five hosts were present. The first topic was the controversial comic in the New York Post that shows police shooting a chimpanzee with the caption that they will have to find someone else to sign the next stimulus bill. Whoopi said that the paper is getting a lot of controversy because of the racist connotations in the cartoon. Barbara Walters said, “Because it’s a black monkey.” (What the??) Elisabeth Hasselbeck said it was like when Lebron James was on Vogue cover looking like King Kong. She said that she does not understand why it is so hard to be mindful of things that are offensive and stereotypes. Barbara said even portraying the president as a wild animal is offensive. Whoopi said it was the caption that made it connect to the president and without the caption no one would have a problem with it. (Thank you, Ms. Obvious).
Sherri said that the comic is also so violent. She also said that once upon a time if you said things about President Bush you were considered unpatriotic, like when Whoopi made a joke about Bush and lost endorsements. Joy said that she is all for free speech, but this is not even a funny comic. Whoopi said that the Post said that it was humor, but it was disingenuous because they knew it was a provocation and that people would have that response. Sherri pointed out that they knew people would make the connection because the article about Obama signing the bill was on the page right next to the comic. Joy said that the guy who did the comic is also very homophobic and has comics about fat women.
Elisabeth said that comics like this were once used as propaganda to oppress people and we need to be mindful of that. Joy said “It is still free speech, Elisabeth.” Sherri said you can hide behind free speech, but what about personal responsibility? Joy said that you have free speech all the way, but should expect criticism. Whoopi said that as a country we have to be prepared for things like this.
Attorney General Eric Holder said that the country is a nation of cowards when it comes to talking about issues of race. Barbara said that they have been able to talk about racism and feelings on that topic on The View and it is nice to be able to talk about that and feel safe. Sherri said that we have a responsibility to teach the next generation and that children are truly colorblind, noting that Jeffrey has friends of different races. Elisabeth said something about him and Grace and Sherri said that they were locking lips the other day.
Elisabeth said it is dangerous to call us a nation of cowards and would caution him about painting the whole country as cowards. Sherri agreed with Elisabeth about the use of the word “coward.” Whoopi said that Holder was pinpointing the idea that people don’t have the kind of conversations like they do on the show and with two black hosts. Sherri said that she has race-related conversations all the time and often is tired of having to answer race questions. Barbara said that not everyone does. Sherri joked that since it is February (and Black History Month) people should feel free to ask her.
The next topic was Barbara’s Oscar special, which features interviews with Hugh Jackman, Mickey Rourke, Anne Hathaway, and The Jonas Brothers. She said that she asked Hugh Jackman about the rumors that he is gay and they played a clip of that part of the interview. She said that Jackman gave her a lap dance and she can answer the question–he is not gay. (yikes). Then she said that she did not mean it that way. (then how did she mean it)
Then she played a clip of the interview with Rourke, where he waited eight years for the love of his life, who battled heroin addiction. Elisabeth said that she would wait that long for someone. Sherri said, “Girl, your eggs would be so dried up.” Joy said it would depend on your age, saying for her that is a lot time to wait. Whoopi said that for her once it is done, it is done and they can be friends, but she won‘t wait around. Barbara said that at her age two weeks is too long and then something else about a lap dance.
Whoopi will be at the Academy Awards–in a dress, which the co-hosts said it was pretty. Joy called the Oscars the Gay Olympics.
Sherri talked about the fire in her building and that it was started by her TV husband Tracy Morgan. She is going to need to have her hardwood floors replaced from water damage from the sprinklers
Joy will be sitting in for Larry King tonight, with guest Ann Coulter. Barbara asked her if she was going to take her on. Joy that when she sits in for Larry she tries to be objective and neutral. The other part of the episode will be about the octo-mom. She said that there will be a pro-life advocate on who will probably say the mom did the right thing for not having an abortion.
Barbara promoted a book about running a business. Sort of a bizarre promo and then everyone got a copy of the book.
Laurence Fishburne appeared on the show to talk about his role on CSI. He replaced William Peterson who had the role 8 or 9 years. He was not nervous to take the role and said that he knew William from a Korean bathhouse where they used to pass each other naked all the time. Sherri said that people said that it is monumental for a black man to replace a white man in a major role on a series. Laurence joked, “He’s white? I thought he was blue.”
The bodies on the show are anatomically correct down to the chest hair and looking at the bodies makes him happy to be alive. He has no need to go to an actual mortuary for research. He said that he learned about the “CSI effect” where criminals learned tricks from the show and applied them to crimes. The show had to adapt and change things, like eliminating a step so that it cannot be replicated.
He thinks the Post comic was very racist and it was great to hear them talking about it on the show. He said that racism is the “family disease” of the country and we are afraid to talk about it because of the shame associated with it, on both sides, either being descended from slave owners or descended from slaves. He said that Lincoln said that we need to mourn the national tragedy of slavery and that has still not happened. He thinks there should be a national ceremony to acknowledge the legacy of slavery, because it affects everyone.
Barbara asked him whether he thinks that his children are colorblind and Laurence said that he does not think it is true, because no one is without preconceived notions and people are categorized as part of our culture. Joy said that it is hard for whites to have friends who are black because of the way society is set up. Elisabeth said, “not everybody.” Laurence set that may be true because of sort of an institutional racism and how things are set up.
Whoopi asked him about race in Hollywood. Laurence said that there used to be the “chitlin’ circuit” and sometimes racism is overt and sometimes it is hidden. Sherri said that it why television has changed because twenty years ago you would not have seen a black chief of staff on a show like Grey’s Anatomy or two black hosts on a talk show. Joy mentioned Spike Lee’s movie Bamboozled, which examines the role of blacks in film over the years.
The next segment was “Bank on the View: Make-up under $10,” featuring Barbara’s make-up artist Lori Klein. Elisabeth said that Barbara always looks good, which is a testament to her work. Here are the products that she mentioned:
* Max Factor pan stick foundation, $7.75
* Wet and Wild eye shadow pallet, $4.99
* L’Oreal felt marker pen, $7.75
* Cover Girl lash last mascara, $8.95
* Andrea false eyelashes, $3.00
* Revlon blush, $9.75
* Black radiance velvet illuminator two-color pallet for eyes or face, $4.19
* Physician’s formula plump lotion lip lacquer
* Cover Girl outlast lip stain, $7.29
* OPI nail sticks, $6.99
During the discussion of the face illuminator, Lori said that it looks like Elisabeth uses illuminator because her face glows. Elisabeth said that she does and then said, “it’s the baby” and swung her belly out. Whoopi came and stole one of the nail sticks. So funny!!!!! Or not. I wish the audience would stop laughing when she does things like that, it just encourages her.
Laurence Fishburne, Sherri Shepherd, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Whoopi Goldberg, Barbara Walters, Joy Behar, CSI, Barack Obama, New York Post, CSI, Mickey Rourke, Hugh Jackman, Anne Hathaway, Jonas Brothers, make-up, racism, Eric Holder
February 19th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Geez Laweeze Barbara face is so pulled tight that her lips no longer move when she speaks and I can hardly understand her.. Is it just me?
February 19th, 2009 at 10:16 am
No, not to pat myself on the back, but I noticed her face being pulled tight before any of you did, not to pat myself on the back.
And not to pay myself on the back, but I can’t understand her more than you can’t understand her, not to pat myself on the back.
These chicks are like the Kristen Wiig character on SNL who does everything better or before you. Give it up ladies!
February 19th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Come on HASSELBECK, while you feign pious outrage at the New York Post cartoon, remind the non-New York audience around the country that….
RUPERT MURDOCH OWNS THE NEW YORK POST AND THE FOX NETWORK, AND THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, AND MY SPACE….
CALL HIM OUT ON THIS CARTOON.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:20 am
#1 Aileen–
Geez Laweeze Barbara face is so pulled tight that her lips no longer move when she speaks and I can hardly understand her.. Is it just me?
Yes it is just you.
She really is looking kinda thick though….. yesterday in the coat…. today in that wide blouse….. maybe she missed her liposuction appointment
February 19th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Elisabeth is the one who gets to speak first about the whether the cartoon is racist? Are you kidding me?!
And Barbara talking like she definitely knows Hugh Jackman isn’t gay, she wishes she knew from personal experience.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:25 am
$5 susieq–
And Barbara talking like she definitely knows Hugh Jackman isn’t gay, she wishes she knew from personal experience.
she said he gave her a lap dance…. then eluded that he got… um.. “excited” over her…. now I may be going out on a limb here….. but if Barbara Walters “effected” him in that way…. he just might be gay.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:29 am
I would like to point out that the New York Post, the premier racist newspaper, is the publication that continuously comes to EH defense.
The NYP has written many glowing articles about TLB in their pursuit of pushing the Republican agenda. Too bad EH, who is such a non-racist, can’t connect the dots.
(Is Elisabeth still an unregistered Republican?)
The New York Post is another Rupert Murdoch publication – think FOX News. Think Republican-run media…like the ONE HUNDRED PLUS right-wing radio programs polluting our airwaves with hate, lies and propaganda.
Does anyone else find it hypocritical that EH thinks the NYP should be responsible with their creative license when she watches FOX’s Hannity – who has been calling Obama a socialist and the stimulus plan the apocalypse?
Elisabeth tries so hard to convince all that she’s not a racist – I think she doth protest too much. Her gaiety over Jeffrey and Grace’s lip-lock drips with insincerity.
Why didn’t TLB have a problem with Rush calling our servicemen “Phony Soldiers?”
What was with touching Joy’s hair?
Has anyone else noticed that TLB’s mouth never closes – she never stops talking – she makes everything about her – she replies, interrupts, monopolizes, mimics, talks over, talks under and never shuts up? In comparison to the other co-hosts – she has decided this show is about her.
Joy and Ann Coulter? I LOVE IT -
February 19th, 2009 at 10:31 am
Joy interviewing Ann Coulter tonight on LKL, I am so there.
You know the Hugh Jackman rumors about him being gay are so old I’m actually thinking BW brought it up in the interview so he “prove” he isn’t. And the story he told about his wife in the bathroom, I heard it before, not sure if it was on the View or R&K. What’s wrong BW can’t come up with original questions?
February 19th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Joy really is impressive.
She is going to be on Larry King tonight……. one of her guests will be Ann Coulter…. Joy is saying that she will be objective. Im gonna watch it….. if she will be objective then Ill be impressed….. Im not sure if I would be able to be if she starts hating on the left like she does.
I could guarantee that I wouldnt be able to stay quiet off camera though.
I hope Winnie finds the video.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Great Minds Diane #3 - I should have read before I posted.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:34 am
“Elisabeth tries so hard to convince all that she’s not a racist – I think she doth protest too much. Her gaiety over Jeffrey and Grace’s lip-lock drips with insincerity.”
Not to pat myself on the back, but I noticed that a nano-second before you did, not to pat myself on the back. I got an NAACP award for noticing that just a little bit before you did. Not to pat myself on the back.
Yeah, and I love that Elisabeth Filarski hasselbeck “cautions” Eric Holder about calling this a nation of cowards. Who is she kidding? On what authority does she caution anyone? Who the hell does she think she is? She really is the kid whose parents told her she was special and wonderful and she believed them.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:38 am
All my make-up is under $10, what’s the big deal?
February 19th, 2009 at 10:42 am
EH’s voice twitches with tension and anxiety. Sometimes I have to mute the sound and just read the captions when she rants.
Whoopi has that same uniform on again–loose white blouse and beige vest. I’m gonna start counting the days she wears it.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Joy is sincerely curious about changing how people related to each other. She acknowledges that we mistakenly think things about each other that are untrue and wants to change the circumstances that cause our misunderstandings. Elisabeth wants to pretend she has no prejudices. Laurence Fishburne called her out by including that people are judged by their gender preferences. She was all “uh-huh” and “yes” until he got there. Busted, Bitsy.
Hey, Bitsy, I may not have said this in the last seventeen seconds, so let me remind you that you suck.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:45 am
I loved Laurence Fishburne’s suggestion about mourning our history of slavery. I can’t even imagine the outrage among the GOPers – including members of my family. Sad.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Roja - LOL
But seriously folks, did you see at the begining of the show they started hot topics with the racial cartoon when Barbara had to start off where it was offensive and she just stopped everyone from speaking… and said.. “its because the monkey is black”.. uh… duh… everyone got quiet then joy says.. uh.. bawbwa.. all monkeys are black..
I’m just saying..
February 19th, 2009 at 10:51 am
so this “bank on The View” segment is all about make-up?
So getting all of these items for “under $10″ will cost you close to $100.
This is supposed to be a “money saving” segment?
maybe its just me…. but I dont get it.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:52 am
During the makeup segment, did they bring an audience from a Magic Bullet demonstration? OOOHHH! AAAHHHH!
They’re only going home with sixty bucks worth of makeup. Take it easy, people.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Clothing intervention for the makeup lady. Quickly.
Yes, Roger, a hundred dollars on makeup is a whole lotta money in my book.
I get some of my stuff at Dollar Tree, so it’s not like I’m a fancy lady who moves her food around at lunch.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:55 am
One more thing, Whoopi stay backstage.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Monkeys arent black… they are monkeys
Monkeys dont have race….. Barbara Walters is supposed to be intelligent….. why didnt they explain it to her?
I guess when your boss is ignorant you arent supposed to tell them.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:59 am
We can NEVER repeat it long enough or loud enough: the facts about the Republican propaganda machine and the hypocrisy.
Why not at least a mention that about Murdoch’s ownership of these media outlets?
“Elisabeth is the one who gets to speak first about the whether the cartoon is racist? ”
“I think she doth protest too much. Her gaiety over Jeffrey and Grace’s lip-lock drips with insincerity.”
Why does HASSELBLOCK too often get to ‘lead the charge’ on race-relation topics. Remember how she was the “EXPERT ” on the black church experience when it came to Reverend Wright last year??? No matter how many times Whoopi, Sherri, attempted to diplomatically explain the role of black churches/ministers/its history and their role in local black communities.She insisted she knew better.
And her calling out Eric Holder’s choice of words about race. Come on, Miss Priss, its obvious ANYTHING connected with President Obama’s staff, good decisions, sound poilicies will NEVER be complimented by her or the crowd she speaks for.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:03 am
By the way, Sean Hannity goes to a whole other level of daily abuse, name calling, and verbal attacks on President Obama on his daily radio show: he calls Obama, “The Annointed One”.
I know this from my dear sweet 76 year old mom, who is a rabid LIBERAL, but sometimes loses her progressive Air America radio broadcast signal in Pennsylvania; so she ‘checks up on’ right wing radio. I always tell her, more power to her, because I could not stomach it.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Joy vs. Ann Coulter on LKL is a can’t miss. But if Joy tries to be an objective moderator, the situation could fall flat. Ann would have the advantage, and might bait Joy outrageously to trip her up.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Good morning Shannon, Aileen, Berndoubt, Kelly and Roger…..a thank you to all for your comments!
MISCELLANEOUS THOUGHTS……
1.The cartoon was not funny and we all know exactly what was meant by it. When my children were growing up I made a real effort to help them understand that with every right and priviledge….comes responsibility, respect and common sense…..but now days they just seem to be meaningless words.
2. Aren’t you all weary of all the nay sayers, all the hate speakers and liars….I am. Sadly I believe our country is in grave trouble and it is beyond disappointing that corporate media seems to relish in doomsday talk and dividing people. (FactCheck.com is an excellent site that gives the facts, doesn’t take sides and allows us to come to our own conclusions).
3. We are bless to live in this country and I hope you all agree that we need to pull together for the common good of all our citizens. I am so tired of every thing becoming a repub or a dem issue…..or a religious issue. I respect the right of every citizen to think and believe as they wish as long as they do not harm others.
4. Have any of you taken note of how often we seem to be hearing that the present administration is doing little or nothing to correct the problems made by the previous administration? I don’t understand this…..where were the voices over the past eight years and why are there so many who apparently think this administration should have a magic wand?
5. Please check out your local animal shelter…..Our local animal shelter is full to over flowing…..as more people become unemployed and lose their homes…..the numbers increase….I have made a commitment to donate 150lbs of dog food, cat food…..also litter and bleach every month to our shelter….(wish I could do more) The people who are taking care of these animals are diligent in their efforts and I commend them.
Can so relate to all who have lost their precious pets….and I know each one has a special place in our hearts always.
Folks….please pray for the safe return of little Haleigh Cummings from Satsuma Florida. Many of you have probably already heard about this child. She is 5 years old. Hundreds of people have been searching for her.
Everyone take care and thanks for allowing me to express my VIEW! Monica
February 19th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Babs - The offense taken by many who saw the cartoon has NOTHING to do with the color of the monkey; it’s the association of a chimp with a black person - our President. For someone who had a torrid love affair with a prominent black senator, BW seems incredibly insensitive and unenlightened when it comes to race issues. Thank you, SS, for trying to set the record straight.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:14 am
FROM THE RECAP: “Elisabeth said that Barbara always looks good, which is a testament to her work.”
MY RESPONSE: Good grief
February 19th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Diane from N.J. Says: “By the way, Sean Hannity goes to a whole other level of daily abuse, name calling, and verbal attacks on President Obama on his daily radio show: he calls Obama, “The Annointed One”.
MY RESPONSE: How immature!
February 19th, 2009 at 11:18 am
#25, Monica - EXCELLENT points made in your post. Well done!
February 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am
“Sherri said that people said that it is monumental for a black man to replace a white man in a major role on a series”
I think it’s these kind of statements that keep racism alive. I haven’t watched the show, but just in text that statement of Sherri’s irked me.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:22 am
That glow on Bitsy’s face came from Barbara’s large intestine.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:23 am
BW is clueless- she didn’t “get” the monkey cartoon at all. Sad she’s still on air and in a position of power. The View panel has not been the only panel and/or talk show to discuss race,the N word, etc. Oprah was dealing with these topics years ago, especially during the O.J. trial and when Imus had his Moment of Shame a few years back. My God, people, The View is NOT cutting edge……………..blaaaah.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:25 am
I don’t get the outrage over the Post cartoon. It was a comment about the crazed chimp attack in CT and their making a less than funny connection to an explaination about the stimulus package. Where were all of the protests when GWB was depicted ACTUALLY as an ape - ears, lips and all? The hypocracy of reverse racism amazes me.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:27 am
“Elisabeth said that Barbara always looks good, which is a testament to her work.”
Stacee, does the reverse apply to Elisabeth then? Her “work” is so horrendous it makes her look bad. Where did EH learn logic?
February 19th, 2009 at 11:29 am
“I think it’s these kind of statements that keep racism alive. I haven’t watched the show, but just in text that statement of Sherri’s irked me.”
ShannonP, I agree. When Sherri made her statement I cringed. LF didn’t take over WP’s character. She made it sound like LF was playing a white character or something.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Berndoubt - “That glow on Bitsy’s face came from Barbara’s large intestine.”LOL
February 19th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Here’s the category for The View’s win at the NAACP awards. Someone, please explain how they won.
Outstanding Talk – (Series)
* The View
Iconoclasts: Venus Williams & Wyclef Jean
Judge Mathis
Tavis Smiley
The Tyra Banks Show
February 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Wow – there weren’t any black talk show hosts before Whoopi and Sherri?
Somebody better alert Oprah.
And The View was the first to discuss racism and the N-word?
Why do I remember show after show on racism in America on Oprah, Phil Donahue and Ricki Lake? Didn’t Geraldo (Herald-O) Rivera get his nose cracked by a bunch of skinheads?
I’m so confused. It’s so much easier to just believe everything you hear, read and see in the media – forget it - I’m heading over to FOX where they do my thinking for me.
And NO - You did not think of it first BERN
February 19th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Click on my name for a less than flattering article about Elisabeth in the NY Post.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:36 am
I thought the NYP “cartoon” was a Republican rant. I did not associate the Chimp, as being Obama.I thought the cartoon was an opinionated way of saying the Stimulus was so poorly “put together” that even a Chimp could do it.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Good point Marilyn. It takes a racist mind to automatically find the hidden racist “statement”.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:40 am
The link didn’t work susieq -
THANKS Monica - great input.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I honestly didn’t mean for my 41 post to sound as harsh as it did. My point is that the awareness of race is obvious and, in my opinion been fairly well intergrated into our culture. It just isn’t a big item anymore. But when hidden racist statements are scanned for, it becomes obsurd.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:44 am
I like that Laurence Fishburne answered the question about replacing William Peterson by saying that he thought he was blue, thereby exposing what a stupid question it was.
#38, “And NO - You did not think of it first BERN” and I did, which I noted in my post #37. If you look carefully and remove the unnecessary letters, it clearly spells out, “Yes, I did.” Because I did. Already. Not to pat myself on the back.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:52 am
susieq Says:
[ Click on my name for a less than flattering article about Elisabeth in the NY Post.]
“Page Not Found
The page you are looking for cannot be found or does not exist on NYPOST.COM.”
Response: Is it me ?? I am known for not being the brightest computer user alive!
February 19th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Racism is a topic that makes me very sad. I grew up in the South in a white family in which it was very strong, and still is. All these years I’ve tried to reason with them at every opportunity, but I guess they will never change.
In the sixties, one day I got on a public bus in a large city in Alabama and sat down next to some black ladies in the only empty seat (after asking their permission). I noticed an air of tension during the ride, but I was only a young teen, so I ignored it. When the ladies got off the bus, a large white policeman who had been sitting across from us demanded loudly “Are you trying to cause trouble”? I was devastated.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Ok try to click my name again for the unflattering NY Post article about Elisabeth
February 19th, 2009 at 11:59 am
i disagree.
it doesn’t take a racist mind to find automatically find the hidden racist statement.
the statement appeared loud and clear to me.
the post showed poor judgement.
during the campaign, obama was repeatedly referred to as a chimp by racist supporters of the mccain/palin ticket.
just because your community doesn’t have racism and seems to be fairly integrated doesn’t mean a thing.
there are still parts of the country where racism is alive and well.
america needs to have a dialogue.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Diane #3 and Kelly #7, I almost posted myself (and using the words!) EH doth protest too much! I almost wish I’d watched, just to see her pretend to like it when Sherri said Jeffrey and Grace locked lips. The camera doesn’t lie and I think she has always looked down her nose at Whoopi and Sherri.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Pepperhead, I had similar experiences with family members and with past experiences. If you live in certain areas of the country where there is little cultural diversity, it still happens but for the most part, we live well intergrated lives. I never hear the children in my family remark about color or race among their school friends. It is nothing unusual and of no consequence.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
#33 Vickie–
Where were all of the protests when GWB was depicted ACTUALLY as an ape - ears, lips and all?
There was out rage then too Vickie…. Im sure you shouted from the tree tops then, but now it is ok…. interesting.
Remember the movie Death of a President put out in 2006 more out rage….. there was even call for censorship….. but a cartoon about an ape being killed, and relating the dead monkey to a politician and the stimulus package…. well thats just funny
More double standards from the right
Imagine that
February 19th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I don’t want my children to be colorblind. I want them to respect and embrace people of different races, religions and sexual preferences.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
#48 I agree, and very well put, heatherspeaks
February 19th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
“…america needs to have a dialogue.” About what? Haven’t we been dialoging for a few decades now? More dialog is going to help? I can’t see it. It has never helped, as “the war on poverty” of the 60s didn’t help, as welfare has not helped, nor will ever help. What do we need to dialog about that will be different from past dialog. An Africa-American president is a pretty loud statement about how accepting American citizens are and how color-supportive we are.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
“I like that Laurence Fishburne answered the question about replacing William Peterson by saying that he thought he was blue, thereby exposing what a stupid question it was.”
The View might like to pretend they’re trying to “enlighten” viewers about the subject of race but IMO they’re just stirring the pot. Just because EH cried over the N-word and BW had a black lover doesn’t mean they’re authorities on race.
EH likes to pretend she’s sooo progressive but she’s always in favor of cutting programs that would most likely benefit minorities. Saran wrap isn’t even as transparent as she is.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
#52, AMEN! We are all aware of differences. We should be more aware of our similarities. It should be celebrated that we each have something amazing to offer the world! I’d be bored to tears in a world full of people just like me…shut it, Roger! I’d also be tired of listening to me…keep it shut, Rog! I want to hear from everybody…except you right now, R from O!
I had a great teacher in high school who taught us that it’s o.k. to notice differences, but it’s not o.k. to treat people better or worse because of them! Pure genius!
February 19th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Roger…”There was out rage then too Vickie…. Im sure you shouted from the tree tops then, but now it is ok…. interesting.” Again, you tend to assume. I never said is okay now or okay then. It is not okay in either situation if the implication is comparing the president to a chimp. I just didn’t automatically see “racisim” in the cartoon. I saw REALLY poor taste in light of the fact that a woman is clinging to life after the attacking monkey removed her EYES, NOSE, JAW and most of her hands. THAT is why the cartoon was offensive.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I’m sure I’ve said before that I come from a highly dysfunctional family. In that family, people pretend that problems don’t exist and they fester and get worse. I don’t see most of them anymore, because they are so sick and live in so much denial, even being around them is unhealthy.
If you have an infection in your leg, ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. It makes it worse. It needs to be treated. Sometimes the treatment hurts like hell and you wish that you’d have just left it alone, but eventually, when it’s better and it doesn’t hurt anymore, you’re glad that you went through some pain and you still your leg. Or, you can let it fester and eat away at itself until it becomes so infected that it has to be amputated. The sick, infected, unhealthy part has to go. The part that hasn’t been treated must be removed.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Vickie, there is still a lot that needs to be done and said about race. The View is definitely not the place for it.
Yes, we now have an African American President, but there were a lot of people that didn’t vote for him because of his race. I happen to live in a state where I know this to be true.
Until people start being honest with themselves about how they really feel they’ll never learn how to change. Yes Elisabeth, I’m speaking to you.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
#56…berndoubt
I save meaningful quotes……This is a keeper for sure…..thanks for sharing!
“I had a great teacher in high school who taught us that it’s o.k. to notice differences, but it’s not o.k. to treat people better or worse because of them! Pure genius!”
February 19th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
well, vickie.
you can throw your hands up in the air and say oh, well i’ve tried.
i won’t. maybe it’s not very important to you.
perhaps you’ve decided to live in denial. i don’t know. attitudes such as yours are the reasons the dialogue is needed.
so, for the sake of future generations i’ll never give up.
it’s really too bad that you’ve decide to cut and run.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
#56 burndoubt–
I want to hear from everybody…except you right now, R from O!
well that is just too bad isnt it…. This needs to be said so Im gonna say it.
If burndoubt were to ever go mute…. if her keyboard stopped working….. we all would be disappointed….. there would be a missing part of the family called “watching the view”
You may be totally annoying Bern baby…. but you are a needed annoyance
February 19th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I.’m supose to be studying but here it goes.my main problme with the cartoon is not the carelessnes of makeing obama moneky when there is a long standing racial slur in that but moreover the idea that the cartoon goes “hey the president been shot dead but is cool he not going to make anymore laws so cool.’ i mean they made bush a monkey but never killed him of. current evetn or not it not very sensitive. on thesurface however it is a simple commentary about simulou and an unforutnate attack.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
There’s a history in this country of racist comparing African Americans to monkey’s. Therefore, it’s totally ignorant to equate that comparison, to Bush being compared to a monkey. Since TLB is offended is she going to boycott the Faux News network, since the same folks who own Faux news owns the Post.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I am sure there were lots of people who did not vote for Obama because of his race but that is never going to change. Pretty much every home in the US has access to a TV with cable, internet, magazines, etc. The dialog is out there already. Can you conceive of anyone who has not heard and considered the race dialog? Some people are not interested in changing their views or their preferences. It is never going to happen just because people are going to think what they think and do what they do. Why must we all agree? I like rainlillie’s statement about appreciating differences. For the most part, this country functions pretty well with the degree of diversity that we have. We are doing pretty well from what I see. But to interpret every whisper and look as racist in the height of destructiveness. That is what race baiters like Al Sharpton do, not just “right-wingers”.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
#60, same teacher, same class, he had us participate in an experiment about discrimation. Some of us volunteered to wear a blue arm band one day in school. Most people in the school knew about the experiment and were allowed to treat us differently on that one day. I knew I would take the blue arm band off at the end of the day and that everything would go back to “normal”, but it was still one of the most upsetting days I ever had. (I’ve had quite a few, apparently, which I’ve been inspired to share over the last few days here, sorry folks, I’ll try to think of something less depressing some time soon.) One girl who was sort of a friend of mine was in several of my classes and was merciless at every opportunity. She didn’t hit me or say anthing to me, but she would knock my books off my desk and kick them away from me when I tried to pick them up. I was nearly in tears for most of that day. And again, let me say that I tried to calm myself by repeating that it would be over tomorrow. It didn’t matter.
Now, even with that experience, I don’t consider myself on how it must feel to be routinely discrimated against, but I know how bad it can be for one day with an end in sight. I don’t pretend to know, but I don’t dispute what someone else tells me about how it feels. And I don’t dare try to tell someone else that it’s all over and we’re fine now because we elected Barack Obama. As long as one racist is out there making one other person miserable…it’s there. As long as one person gets pulled over today because they don’t look like they belong in the neighborhood or the car they’re driving in…it’s there. As long as one person is followed in a store and watched suspiciously…it’s there.
It’s there.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
#62, “You may be totally annoying Bern baby…. but you are a needed annoyance”
I’m the speck of sand that starts the pearl!
It’s a beautiful day in America!
February 19th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
#51 heatherspeaks, since you are assuming that I don’t care, have thrown my hands up, and live in denial, I am curious, what is it that you actually do that elevates the dialog on race? Maybe that will be our starting point, we’ll follow your lead.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Heatherspeaks, where’ve you been? Haven’t seen you here in awhile.
It’s easy to say “it’s too hard, things are never going to change, etc.” when you’re in the position where it doesn’t matter whether things change or not. For me personally, I want things to change. Not just for my son but for eveyone, of every color.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
#66 berndoubt
well, put. it’s there.
and sometimes here, in my opinion.
thanks for the link, susieq.
why am i not surprised at eh’s behaviour toward her fellow survivors?
it completes yet another piece of the puzzle that is elizabeth hasselbeck.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Heatherspeaks, did you catch the part about EH sending Roger ice cream for Xmas? Wow big spender.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
berndoubt, yes there is no denying that it is out there. But my question is why would anyone expect that we are going to live in some Utopia where there is no strife and discomfort? As long as there are humans inhabiting the planet (and apes too, I guess), it will be there.
I have been to foreign countries where I did not speak the language and felt illiterate. As part of a graduate school experience we had to spend the day in an alternative (to our own) community. I went to a black community. It was a strange experience to be the minority. Some folks were really nice, some were not, It is the way life among human beings is. I’ve had experiences. I have mixed race relatives. I just don’t know what more can be said to change what happens among different groups of people. As I said earlier, I think we do a pretty good job of it, all in all.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
#65 vickie–
The dialog is out there already. Can you conceive of anyone who has not heard and considered the race dialog? Some people are not interested in changing their views or their preferences.
This is a really interesting comment vickie. Does this opinion of yours go only for race or other divisive issues as well? Like Abortion for instance….. all the dialog is out there….. can you conceive anyone not hearing about the abortion dialog? …. or how about the Iraq war…. no need to talk about it…. no need to try and end it.. just keep on killing till they give up?
Keeping your head in the sand wont do anything to help…. it will just make it tough to breathe which can cause brain damage.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
heathespeaks..did I miss your comment about what you are actually doing to change race relations other than calling me out?
February 19th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
#7 & #11 - Thank you for confirming that. It didn’t go unnoticed here either.
What is her blouse doing?
Also thought it was freaky weird when BW was talking about kids calling their parents to the TV to watch the Jonas Brothers, and she said, “Mommy! Daddy!” in a bizarre voice.
I would have said more but I can’t say anything as well or better than you guys do!
February 19th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Bern,
I think a Lot of people some with good intentions make the mistake, of wanting to live in a world where we don’t see that there are differences in others. The key is to see those difference and respect and accept them.
Once my hubby, my son who was four at the time and I, were at a party. There was a man there who was disfigured. My son went up to him in front of everyone and asked him what was wrong with is face. My hubby and I were totally embarrassed and shocked. It was as if the room became dead silent.
The man got down to my sons eye level and said I was born like this. He went on to tell him he’s so glad he asked, because most people would just stare or try to pretend that there isn’t anything wrong.
I think we do our children a disservice when we don’t teach them about other cultures and to embrace the differences.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
well, if you must know vickie.
i walk the walk and talk the talk.
i don’t engage in bigoted ideologies and am proud to say my family is a rich tapestry of colors.
i love them all equally and have been blessed to be a human being raised by a family that embraced all races and celebrated our differences.
what did you do that apparently didn’t work?
you might want to start of by not characterizing someone as a race baiter.
his efforts on behalf of the young man murdered the day before his wedding was necessary and still is necessary because i believe it won’t be the last incident of ugliness.
susieq,
i’ve been busy looking after grandmother.
she’s recovering from knee surgery and will be having both hips replaced later in the year.
she has significant arthritis and needs surgery.
i agree, we need to at least make things better for those who’ll be here long after we’re gone.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Re. WG “I wish the audience would stop laughing when she does things like that, it just encourages her.” I know, I had a cowrkr who couldnt drv, hd body image issues etc, not much of a life outsd her lttl wrld. coulnt see 2 ppl talking b/c sh wld strt laughing by herself, start singing, or doing a little dance. ATTENTION! I would ignore her but my othr cowrks didnt. I thought “pls dont encourage her pls!” I had to vent sorry for the spelling. **I skimp on make up whn it’s ok, eyeliner? wh cares? 99cnt. only. Foundation, I splurge a little. Fragrance? as long as it dsnt smell cheap! But, my real treat (occasional) is SEPHORA. It leaves all the dept. stores comstc. counters behind, even w/the free gift offers. Ladies of T.V., we reg. gals knw about m/u, thank u.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
#73 roger. It is simply a question on all of those issues you list…what more can be said that is not being or has not been said. That does not mean that one doesn’t do anything to help the situation improve. I’ll ask you as well, specifically what is it that YOU do rather than talk?
February 19th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I’m verklempt about this subject. I’m going to pick a topic. Number of prisoners by race:
At year ending 2007, there were 3,138 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,259 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 481 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.
Talk amongst yourselves.
IT’S THERE!
February 19th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
susieq,
yeah i caught that too.
she’s so generous to give him something he’ll remember and cherish for many years.
i’m sorry..i can’t bite my tongue anymore.
elizabeth is clueless.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
#71 susieq–
did you catch the part about EH sending Roger ice cream for Xmas? Wow big spender.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN!?!?!
I missed it.. I never got my ice cream…. I always get gypped!!
WHERE IS MY ICE CREAM!?!?!
February 19th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
heatherspeaks…I’ll call al sharpton a race baiter all day long. Google Tawana Brawley.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
When my son was in second grade and I worked in the Religious Education office at church, he and another boy in his religion class got irritated with each other. The other boy pushed my son, my son pushed him back. The other boy’s mother was a Religious Ed teacher and the boy had Down’s Syndrome. I was mortified. I apologized to the mom, who was totally cool about it and admitted that her son was annoying my son. On the way home I was berating my son for pushing John because he was “special” and my son couldn’t figure out what was so special about him, he was just John. My son didn’t think he was different and didn’t treat him differently. He was just John.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
berndoubt, beautiful. All in all, I think we do a pretty good job of accepting all sorts of differences. We are basically good and decent people.
February 19th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
#79, “I’ll ask you as well, specifically what is it that YOU do rather than talk?”
#83, “heatherspeaks…I’ll call al sharpton a race baiter all day long”
You’re right. Sometimes all you have to do is talk to make it better or worse. The problem comes when you don’t listen.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
oh, and one other thing, vickie.
calling people out on things is also what i do.
speaking up is the first step.
i’ve done it since i’ve been a child.
leading by example is another step.
children tend to mimic all behaviours.
so, why not be a positive model for them?
i may not be a politician or celebrity but, i am one person among many anonymous faces out there leading the way.
it also helps to be a community organizer.
from what i’ve heard, it paved the way for a bright young man to be president.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I found the discussion about race interesting, especially when LF came on.
But I just have to say I absolutely can’t bare to listen to a word EH has to say on the issue about “degrading” people. I really had to force myself to continue listening because all I could think about was her intolerance of gays, the unfortunate troops coming home, where are the parents and more to the point of todays discussion - glitterglasseswhatshis face.
She is a fucking hypocrite.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I know this is off-topic, but just wanted to say how excited and thrilled we are to welcome President Obama today on his first (of many, many more I hope) official visit to Canada.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
#87, “speaking up is the first step”
I’ve been doin’ it since I was a young kid and I come out grinnin’. Click the link and jam!
February 19th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
#79 Vickie–
I’ll ask you as well, specifically what is it that YOU do rather than talk?
It isnt so much as what is done… but what is not done….. example… if there are 2 people over there and Im talking about one of them…. I dont point out the black person or the white person, but the person in the red shirt.
My grandpa was a racist, my dad sometimes uses poor language, which was alright in his house….. My mom is from the south, her mom’s family was racist, but her dad’s family wasnt….. I correct that language no matter who uses it… it isnt alright by me.
Other than correcting your own actions, there isnt much more than you can do except talk
Talking about a problem is the first step in correcting the problem……without talking, why would anyone try chaging things?
February 19th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
well, vickie judging by your posts i’ll say this last thing to you:
if you want to engage in negativity and project your feelings of inadequacy upon me and my opinion, then you go right ahead.
you’re reading but, not comprehending.
changing behaviours that are keeping you in the dark is obviously something you’re not ready to let go of.
i honestly hope things get better for you.
because the way you interact with your fellow human beings is important on how we as a society move forward.
there is nothing good nor decent about calling someone a racebaiter.
perhaps, you should engage in a dialogue about race relations.
it might help you with your problem.
oh, wait. you don’t want to go down that road.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
susieq Says: “Stacee, does the reverse apply to Elisabeth then? Her “work” is so horrendous it makes her look bad. Where did EH learn logic?”
MY RESPONSE: LOL! I guess it would also be a “testiment” to her work, right?
February 19th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
thank you, berndoubt.
children live what they learn.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
So what?
Who cares?
It doesn’t happen to me, so I don’t care. That’s all. That was easy. Everything is peachy keen now.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
#94, I actually think I’m a schmuck in that story, but o.k. I was willing to put my pre-conceived notions on my son, but he fought authority and he won. Go on. Click again. It rocks and you know it!
February 19th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Thanks ds - I just love the Canadians on this blog.
Today’s thread reminds me of Rush - that was Rush logic through and through.
Thanks bern, Rog, heatherspeaks, rain and all of those who stand up and speak out.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Yes, we do all have different personal ‘lenses’ with which we may judge that cartoon. These lenses come from our various locales, families, educations, life experiences. Yes, we have come along way - but just because we have elected a Black President, we are not ‘done’.
Let’s call the cartoon out for what it is: historically, monkeys have been used to negatively characterize blacks and even Jews. Thus, they as a group are ‘less than’ , a lower form of life, primitive.
So, if it didn’t dawn on you, that the cartoon may have been seen as a slur against our first black president, that does not mean that we need to turn a blind eye to our black brothers and sisters who were troubled by the image. Seeing an ape shot, was immediate for many; no nuance there. And the tragic event in Connecticut was horribly convenient for the New York Post . If just some are troubled, then we all should be troubled. Whoopi, Sherri, and Laurence F. all took that cartoon to mean a racial slur.
Do you remember when Bill O’Reilly called out Michelle Obama only last year for her remarks about ‘for the first time being a proud American’…and in his rant against her , he used the word ‘lynch’ ? Do you remember Imus calling the Rutger’s U. women’s basketball team, ‘nappy headed ho’s ‘ , only 2 years ago? Our racial problems are far from over.
Yes, we elected a Black President. But how many Americans know that pre-Obama’s rise, how many Black Senators we have EVER had in the Senate ? Do you know? Here’s the answer: 3, and Barack Obama was the 3rd. Since from 1776 - 2008.
And then showing that ‘political ape’ being “shot”, are you kidding me?
Freedom of speech? Absolutely. But also depicting and flirting with that perilous dotted line between editorial freedom, and danger to our President? Whomever allowed that cartoon to be printed, should be fired….Mr. Murdoch. What are your media standards? Are you a responsible owner of your newspaper? Is it because you own so much, does that make you untouchable?
You see if the NY Post owner was an independent owner of just one company, they might be a lot more responsible. You know how we all on this blog talk about media and its power. Fox, Disney Clear Channel radio, Limbaugh’s multi millions and all the right wing radio stations, Murdoch. Do you know that 50 years ago pretty much all media (TV, radio, newspapers, magazines) in this country was owned by about 80 companies. Well now its down to about 5.Very, very powerful conglomerates. I, frankly , suspect that The View panel is often ‘muzzled’becuase of ABC/Disney’s power. And I don’t mean Hasselbeck.
Perhaps, if we break up, REGULATE, media conglomerates, media has a better chance of serving the public if its not controlled by the few.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
berndoubt #80 - you do a terrific Linda Richman!! *grins*
February 19th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Personally, I saw the cartoon and did not view it as racist. I thought it was saying that the bill was so stupid, even a chimp would pen it
However, some people saw it as as a slight to our president. Given the fact that apes and monkeys were used to compare black people, with even families telling their children that black people have tails, perhaps that is what first came to mind for a lot of people when they saw it - thus the outrage. However, the bill was being touted by President Obama, he’s traveled to talk about it and is generally known that it’s his bill. Is it really that hard to see why - given the history of comparing black people to monkeys/apes - some people would be outraged?
And for the record, I did not feel it was right to call President Bush a chimp either.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Diane fron N.J. - WOW!!!! Great points! Thank you for articulating what I was trying to say. Excellent post!!!!!
February 19th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#87, heatherspeaks: “it also helps to be a community organizer.
from what i’ve heard, it paved the way for a bright young man to be president.”
MY RESPONSE:
Great points made. Well said.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
No, his mind is not for rent
To any God or government.
Always hopeful, yet discontent,
He knows changes aren’t permanent,
But change is.
Canadians. Rush. Click. Link.
And what you say about his company
Is what you say about society.
Catch the mist, catch the myth
Catch the mystery, catch the drift.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
#99, I’m a rat tail comb and ten bright red Lee press-ons from it, but I’m like buttah!
Talk amongst yourselves.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Ditto Stacee – great Post Jersey Flower.
Hey MiamiVision – nice to c-ya.
Rush - LOL…
February 19th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
ShannonP Says: “Sherri said that people said that it is monumental for a black man to replace a white man in a major role on a series”
I think it’s these kind of statements that keep racism alive. I haven’t watched the show, but just in text that statement of Sherri’s irked me.”
MY RESPONSE: I agree.
I’m not even sure what she means by “monumental”. Get real, this is Lawrence Fishbourne. Them bringing him on the show most likely had more to do with his star power and hopes that he will draw viewers.
But the bigger question is, why did she even mention it? I mean, what was her point?
Just more “flat-earth” remarks from Sherri, I guess.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
LOL @ Berndoubt
Hey Kelly! Always a pleasure to see you! Love the reads in this entire thread….great dialogues actually!! You know me, growing up in the Civil Rights movement in NYC/suburbs - been there, done that and STILL doing that!
Last night I saw Hannity running clips of our president using the term *crisis/crises* - and Hannity tried to do nothing but make our president look bad - I think Hannity counted on a counter on the screen 25 times in a short period of time that our president used that term. I HATE Hannity - we probably have at least 25 crises ongoing today - at LEAST 25.
What can we do to get rid of Hannity from TV all together? Geesh - I hate this cretin…and he looks like a rat, doesn’t he? A very short chubby RAT.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Terrific posts Heatherspeaks. Also to Bern, Roger, Rain, SusieQ.
Thx Stacee and Kelly.
Hey MiamiVision !
President Obama is in Canada today, right ? Take good care of him, Joey. ..I forget who else is from Canada on this blog?
And now for some levity: You know what the New York Post is good for? Lining the bottom of your birdcage, or wrapping fish.
Need to lose this anger - going to go kiss my doggie on the lips (yes), and take her for a nice walk.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
#98 Diane from N.J.
So, if it didn’t dawn on you, that the cartoon may have been seen as a slur against our first black president, that does not mean that we need to turn a blind eye to our black brothers and sisters who were troubled by the image
Im glad you posted this….. When I first saw the cartoon, I was mad about it…. not for racial reasons, but because I took it as an attack on our President. To me it was condoning his assassination.
When the talk about it being a racial attack…. I immediately saw it and got mad all over again.
The first thing that I did, was google the “NY Post owner” and I saw it was Murdoch… surprise surprise….. The race bating media mogul allowed this cartoon to run… and justified it with a statement….. No wonder when Faux News spins a story racially they get praised instead of scolded.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
#108, Diane back from walking the dog in Jersey?
No Rush. Be Happy. Click. The. Link.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
#108, “And now for some levity: You know what the New York Post is good for? Lining the bottom of your birdcage, or wrapping fish.”
Cruelty to animals.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Waves to Diane from NJ
February 19th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
“And for the record, I did not feel it was right to call President Bush a chimp either.”
I agree, most chimps are lovely compassionate animals.
February 19th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
This link is important…. please click on my name (or clink on it if you are burndoubt)
I picked up this link on another site, it is a link to a cite that is putting out info for the NY Post protesting this cartoon.
it has the person to call and their phone number…. I would post it here but Im not sure if Winnie would want that info on her blog, so the link is under my name.
Thanks… Im about to call right now.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Re. the NYP cartoon. Yes, that ugly ‘r’ word is outhere. I’ve heard it 1st hand. The paper is out of line, big time. But, I cringe when people thrw that word around lightly. For example when Star Jones claimed that the reason why the media made her marriage to Al the butt of many jokes, was because ‘they couldn’t see a black man and a black woman happy’. No, it was b/c u created a circus. Look at Will & Jada! Media loves them. Why? What about Liz & David Guest (sp.?) ? The media was merciless w/them. Let’s not see things where they’re not. It distracts us from the real cases. Oh, and the star jones dt com Website in no more.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Great points everyone! The post has been in the business long enough to know how that cartoon would be perceived.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
I meant Liza, not Liz. U know what Liza
February 19th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
elsie..true.
star was annoying on so many levels. her race had nothing to do with it.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Over on Jezebel they are covering some of the story with the title “When SS has to correct you” aimed at BW.
2 days in a row of bad PR for BW. LOL
February 19th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
The fact that there are over a hundred posts here and it’s still fairly early tells me race is still a subject that needs to have dialogue about it. The sad thing is we can all talk or type till we’re blue in the face and a lot of people won’t listen or care.
That being said I will never stop trying to educate and enlighten people who are willing to listen and care.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
“2 days in a row of bad PR for BW. LOL”
Barbara will probably only care if they spelled her name right.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Just to put it out there again…..
Clink my name…. click it…. clunk it if you wish
Just be part of the dialog…. Let the NY Post know that America wont stand for this kind of “humor”
Maybe, just maybe… if enough voices are out raged…. changed can be made
Lets do some talking!!
February 19th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
heatherspeaks #92 “…if you want to engage in negativity and project your feelings of inadequacy upon me and my opinion, then you go right ahead.” this is quite funny. I am the one who said that I did not immediately see racism in the cartoon, I am the one who believes that as a mixed-race society we seem to get along pretty well. That makes ME the one who needs consciousness raising? Because I don’t immediately see racism…I should pull my head out of the sand and begin to see the light - search out and scan for evidence of racism? No thanks, I’ll pass on that.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
#115 - So true and good point, Elsie.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Watching press conference with your president and our prime minister - OMG! How refreshing. Intelligent, articulate, shows up to work everyday - President Obama represents the Americans I know and love. Enjoying your posts.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
#123, “Because I don’t immediately see racism…I should pull my head out of the sand and begin to see the light - search out and scan for evidence of racism? No thanks, I’ll pass on that.”
When someone points out that they see racism do you deny it and tell them that they are wrong? Again, it’s not in the telling, but the listening.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
HELP!!!!Where can I find blue cheese olives??
After reading all of the above I need them. My own observation is that after a few of the martinis….you don’t miss the blue cheese olives quite so much. I’ve been substituting garlic stuffed olives.
I think it is all Bitsy’s fault. She is driving us to the martini pitchers.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
I thought the whole point of a cartoon was to be humorous…this wasn’t funny on any level and I think the racial slur was intentional and obvious.
What wonderful posts today! Thank you all for taking the time to share your opinions and stories. Talking about issues keeps them alive and hopefully moving in the right direction. Racism, tribalism and sexism are everywhere and I think it’s imperative that we make it clear that it is not acceptable and is destructive to everyone.
I have always found it interesting that I don’t remember seeing any Native American guests on “The View”.
And we are very proud to have your President in Canada…
HMMM I wonder if he is fond of martinis?
February 19th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
nice try at deflection, vickie.
i’m speaking in regards to your opinion that a dialogue on race is useless.
i’m through speaking to you on the matter until you want to address the issue of race relations in america, not the reason the issue was raised.
because, you said tomato and i said tomato. then you said potato and said potato.
so, let’s call the whole thing off.
February 19th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
#128 GraceKelly
Hah! Garlic stuffed olives…then Bern could really call me stinky!
February 19th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Thanks Winnie,
# 40, Marilyn, & 100 Stacee,
That was my impression of the cartoon as well.
# 98 Diane,
Yes, we do all have different personal ‘lenses’ with which we may judge that cartoon. These lenses come from our various locales, families, educations, life experiences. Yes, we have come along way - but just because we have elected a Black President, we are not ‘done’.
Very well said.
I understand Vickie’s comments.
Where and how I grew up, I wasn’t faced with racism.
It wasn’t until I was an adult that I became more aware of racism. Even then, it didn’t seem that big of an issue. I didn’t fully understand how big of an issue it was, and still is.
I learned much more after moving from my diverse neighborhood, school, and workplace, in a large city in the north, to a small town in the South.
Sadly racism is alive and well.
My opinion, from my experiences, it is mostly out of ignorance.
Dialogue is the answer I think. The more you come to understand why and how other races, cultures, feel, what they believe, and why, the more accepting you can become.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Vickie,
What are your thoughts on this?
At year ending 2007, there were 3,138 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,259 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 481 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.
Is there no problem with race in the United States?
February 19th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I got a little sick when TLB said, “…we have to be more mindful, we have to encourage people to be more mindful…” Seriously? She really can say that? What a sleazy little hypocrite. After months of listening to her spew hate and divisiveness about everything related to Barack Obama and she wants us to be more mindful? The more I think about her and her hateful ways I am more than a little sick, my stomach is turning. Sorry, did not mean to rant.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
NanW - it’s EH who has to become more mindful (of everything in life) - so she was merely projecting!…..(her stuff onto others) -
Great great posts - thanks everyone for the GREAT read!
I did grow up with racism and fought it every step of the way (first with my parents) from 1960 on and still to this day. We did make the ‘rents see the light eventually, a couple of decades later (better late than never).
February 19th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
MiamiVision, I agree with you. What bothers me is that she says “we”. Not “we” TLB, but, “YOU”. It is true, all of us need to work on ourselves everyday to make it a better world. But I would not presume to tell other people to change and be mindful before I do it myself. Grrrrrrr!
I grew up in a home that during the late 50’s(when I was a wee one) the 60’s and 70’s was pretty open and honest in dealing with people’s differences. When I look back at the world that my parents grew up in, I must give them a lot of credit in learning about the world around them and teaching all of us. I honor their efforts and memories every day.
February 19th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Sometimes people don’t understand things until they experience those things themselves. I do think that’s why we still have racial problems in this country.
Perhaps some people have overreacted to the cartoon, but with the ugly history of racism in America, can you blame them? Instead of calling it an over reaction, try understanding where they’re coming from.
February 19th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
‘It takes a racist mind to automatically find the hidden racist “statement”.
It takes empathy for others and life experience to know racism when you see it.
“My point is that the awareness of race is obvious and, in my opinion been fairly well intergrated into our culture. It just isn’t a big item anymore.”
Tell that to all all the people I know who STILL experience the pain and humiliation of being discriminated against.
February 19th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Hello Monica!!! - great thoughts on your post! ITA! Your #4 point is very interesting and great observation. In regards to point #5, I will investigate the shelter again if and when I am ready to own a pet again.. but I had some not so good results with them in the past.
I’m just saying,..
February 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
NanW and Rainlillie - Great points. In my family though we (the kids) had to TEACH the parents (very closed minded they were, though my father got better about things as he saw 5 generations, I think he almost HAD to change with the times!).
EH never says “we” because I think she is really very inexperienced in life. She is also a finger-pointer - likes that blame game. Perhaps she is a passive aggressive…don’t know, but I do know she is very narcissistic (sp?).
Very stimulating read/conversations in here today
- you folks are one great buncha coconuts! My favorite kind of *nut* (fruit?) *lol*
February 19th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
“It takes a racist mind to automatically find the hidden racist “statement”.”
Vickie: It’s disappointing to see you engaging in the typical blame-the-victim mode that so many racists like Hannity, Rush, and O’Reilley operate from. I guess Rush and his ilk think that he can scare the rest of us into overlooking his racism by trying to convince us that we are wrong for being outraged by their inappropriate behavior. . . but that little strategy is not going to work. I guess people like Rush have the luxury of believing that racism isn’t as pervasive as it really is - but most of the people who speak out against that kind of thing are doing so because they don’t have the luxury of pretending that racism is only a problem of the past.
February 19th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
There came a time in my mother’s life when my sisters and I could no longer cover for her. We just had to step back and let everyone else see the crazy that we had been having to deal with. I’m wondering if this is the approach the rest of the panel is taking with BW? We’ll respect you for who you are and what you’ve done, but we can’t continue to make excuses for your actions from here on out.
February 19th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Thanks Rog, I totally called the number you posted for The Post and posted it to Facebook. There are sites springing up like crazy on FB. Click on my name for link to gawker’s post of 10 of Sean Delonas’ top ten hateful, homophobic, sexist and racist cartoons…
I think what disturbs me most, besides the historically racist image of comparing black people to chimps (myself I always think of GWB as more of an ass than an ape), is the chimp lying shot on the ground with the implication that it is an assassinated Obama. Really chilling and not the first time it has been alluded to.
Air America is calling for a boycott of ny post advertisers. I’m telling you - that is how we can be heard by the view. crazy lizzie = higher ratings and more $$ from advertisers. So BG and BW don’t care if we complain about her. But if we write to the advertisers - ie. we are still watching the show but we will boycott their products, then change is gonna come…
Did she really say people need to be more mindful? REALLY?
oh, and the huffpo posting of Bonnie Hunt has a million comments by posters totally ripping BW a new one. Makes us look like a ladies luncheon!
February 19th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
#141, Hallie, well put.
February 19th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
#142, “Makes us look like a ladies luncheon!”
Screw all y’all, I’m not going to move my food around my plate. I’m eatin’ every bite!
February 19th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
From much earlier…
Berndoubt - Thx so much for the ‘dont worry be happy, Mcferrin’ tune’ - zow, that was Robin Williams in the video !
Roger’ - ‘Clinked’ on your link, and signed up.
Monica - Loved your post. Had not met you before. Thank you for making us aware of the needs of animal shelters during this down economic cycle.
Joey - Thanks for being so welcoming to our dear President today. If I see a little ‘zip’ in his step as he boards Air Force One for the trip home, I will suspect that he has been to your house for some martini’s…
February 19th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
I really hate this because there are so many posts that have made me smile and nod in agreement. I’m trying to go one by one in acknowledging the great points so here goes:
rainlillie: “Sometimes people don’t understand things until they experience those things themselves. I do think that’s why we still have racial problems in this country. ” SO TRUE!!!!
Sarah# 40 - Well said
Heather in LA #40 - too much to quote, so I will just say AMEN
Diane from NJ - “Joey - Thanks for being so welcoming to our dear President today. If I see a little ‘zip’ in his step as he boards Air Force One for the trip home, I will suspect that he has been to your house for some martini’s…” LOL and Co-sign! I wanted to write something similar all day, but did not want to sound corny. You said it perfectly.
Thank you, Canada!!!!
February 19th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
berndoubt #132 (I think)…”At year ending 2007, there were 3,138 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,259 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 481 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.”
Probably not going to like my answer, but it is my answer (what can I say). You asked what I thought of the above. I think there is a problem with the court system. I used to work at a superior court in the probation department and I sat in on many court hearings, trials. The court system was horrendous and the public defenders of the most disenfranchaised was more horrendous - incredible disservice to the one’s who needed representation. I see it as an economic situation/problem. It is class structure and it is lack of resources, lack of education, so many things. Most of the incarcerated were not on trial for violent crimes and drug related. And again, just my humble opinion based on years of participation and observation, the welfare system holds a great deal of responsibility for the the situation. It is not (exclusively) a racial situation that explains why more blacks and Hispanics are convicted. It appears from stats like that that Black and Hispanic men are just rounded up and thrown into a cell. Most have done the crimes for which they have been convicted. The racial difference is that they did not have the resources/money to have the representation a weathy White man or priv. college student might have. I don’t see that so much as racial as economic depravation. And I think our welfare system has a whole lot to answer for that crime.
February 19th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
sorry, I meant to say were on trial for violent crimes and drugs.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
That’s a fascinating premise, Hallie (#141). I’m always irked when one of the others kowtows to Barbara. Almost-80 BW did a special on “how to live to 150″ awhile back. Thank God I won’t be here to see the View if she pulls that off!
February 19th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Do I feel proud today or what??? The usual time I watch the View was pre empted today for coverage of President Obama’s arrival in Ottawa, the capital city of Canada (that was a BW explanation, lol, for those who may not know what Ottawa is) He was greeted by cheering crowds which really made me a proud Canadian!!!
Because we have a dish & subscribe to all the networks across both the US & Canada premptions don’t bother us, we catch up at a later time.
That said, I have the View taped, but still have not watched it all, what I have seen was upsetting in places, like EH interrupting Joy’s question of Laurence Fishburne. Her ignornance is unbelievable!!!
Off to watch the rest of the show then read the always insightful comments here!!
February 19th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
#147, Part of the problem is poverty and part is lack of representation, as you say, both of which are due to racism. Part of the problem is that police look for certain types, often called racial profiling, also, due to racism. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. We all know the rest of the story. There is plenty of racism still and until it is talked about and hashed out, there always will be.
Here’s a quote from the article:
“Defendants convicted with just 5 grams of crack cocaine, the weight of 5 sugar packets, were subject to a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. The same penalty was triggered for powder cocaine only when an offense involved at least 500 grams.
Twenty years later, the aftermath of these laws is sobering. More than 80 percent of the defendants prosecuted for a crack offense are African-American, despite the fact that more than two-thirds of crack users are white or Hispanic. By and large, these defendants are not the kingpins of the drug trade. Data from the US Sentencing Commission document that 73 percent of crack defendants had only low-level involvement in drug activity, such as street-level dealers, couriers, or lookouts. The commission also has found that crack cocaine sentences are the single most significant factor contributing to racial disparity in federal sentencing.”
February 19th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
HeatherinLA - …when west coast joins the conversation, you always refresh and add great new life to a topical thread.A fellow Air America listener !
Stacee - You were not corny, but if you were, corny is okay.I like your emotion - Roger has his grab-your-attention Italics, and you have your delicious BOLD. How do you guys do that????
Reminder: Watch Joy Behar guest host Larry King tonight. Guest is ….ANN COULTER.
Just gotta have some fun predicting: Coulter is going to use OCTOMOM as an example of how LIBERALS perpetuate single mom status,deterioration of family unit, crime, cost to taxpayer, etc. because OCTOMOM made her extremely poor CHOICE. She knew she could use welfare benefits, foodstmaps, etc. and all the ‘ridiculous’ entitlement programs created by the LIBERALS. OCTOMOM will be representative of all single moms out there. And all that is bad with society.
Okay talk amongst yourselves….Linda Richman.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
#147 Vickie - yep. You’re right.
It’s not so much a racial issue as it is an economic, class and judicial system. It’s not fair across the board. I have seen this in my personal experience; if you have the money for for good legal representation, you will usually get a better deal.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
TWOP is on lockdown again. Apparently people were talking about racism and they considered that offtopic even though racism was a room temperature topic on the View.
Winnie, it can’t be said enough, you’re awesome for having this site. Thank you so much for providing us with a forum to discuss the View and so much more.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
#129 heatherspeaks “…i’m through speaking to you on the matter until you want to address the issue of race relations in america, not the reason the issue was raised”.
I cannot tell you very impressed I am with your willingness to have an open “dialog about race”.
Yes, that was sarcasm.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
#153 Stacee - thank you.
The atttorney general is wrong - we are NOT cowards when it comes to discussions of race in America. Come visit this site.
February 19th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
GraceKelly Says:
HELP!!!!Where can I find blue cheese olives??
After reading all of the above I need them. My own observation is that after a few of the martinis….you don’t miss the blue cheese olives quite so much. I’ve been substituting garlic stuffed olives.
Response: I “googled” blue cheese olives and ordered them online. There has to be a cheaper way to buy them.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
#151 berndoubt - I appreciate your post. The facts are disturbing.
So again I ask, what is the discussion that needs to take place to correct the situation? What discussion (or listening) will have to be had in order to change those facts? It takes action. For the life of me, I don’t know what the solution is but talking just doesn’t seem to be doing the job.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Vickie Says: “The atttorney general is wrong - we are NOT cowards when it comes to discussions of race in America. Come visit this site.”
MY RESPONSE: This site is not indicative of the nation. There are still a lot of people that are uncomfortable talking about race. There are an awful lot of people that insist racism does not exist.
IMO, he was right.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
“For the life of me, I don’t know what the solution is but talking just doesn’t seem to be doing the job.”
Vickie, NOT talking about it isn’t the solution either. If you ignore a problem it won’t go away, it will only get worse.
IMO racism will probably never go away. My hope is that there will just be fewer racists as time goes by. The key is children. Kids aren’t born racist, they are taught that. Racism is built on fear, ignorance and alot times hate. So all I can say is teach your children to treat all people the way they would want to be treated. It’s such a simple thing but it means alot.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Vickie Says: “#129 heatherspeaks “…i’m through speaking to you on the matter until you want to address the issue of race relations in america, not the reason the issue was raised”.
I cannot tell you very impressed I am with your willingness to have an open “dialog about race”.
Yes, that was sarcasm.”
MY RESPONSE: That may be why she chooses not to engage in conversation with you.
Honestly, I don’t blame her.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
#158, it might surprise you to know that in the face of the facts that we see clearly, some people claim that there is no more racism and we are in a “post-racial” America. Many of the people who think this are part of the system as it is and therefore, part of the problem. Nothing can be done for a problem that isn’t acknowledged. That’s what upsets me so much about the flag-waving that goes on the second that anyone questions anything done in the good ol’ U. S. of A.
The example I like to use is my husband. I’m not sure he’s thrilled about it, but well, he’s not typing. I love him more than I ever thought I could love another person. Yes, I adore my children but in a whole different way. I chose my husband with his good traits and his bad traits. When he displays a bad trait, I don’t love him any less or divorce him. I get upset. I address the problem. The problem gets fixed or not. We move on. If the problem doesn’t get fixed, I’ll get mad about it again. If I don’t address the problem then I can’t really be that mad at him. I haven’t done anything to change the situation, so it ceases to be his problem. I can still be mad, I suppose, but I can’t really expect a different outcome until I address the problem. I would even say that in spite of or maybe because of them, I love my husband more now, knowing more of his flaws and knowing them better than I did when we were first together.
Same thing for him with me. I know, it’s hard to believe but sometimes I’m not easy to live with, no really, argue all you want, but it’s true. It’s not an indictment of character to admit human flaws. In a country of three hundred million humans, there’s bound to be some human-related flawing.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
okay, I wave the white flag (oops, maybe I shouldn’t have said that). I thought that heatherspeaks statement that she would not discuss this any further with me illustrated what I have been trying to emphasise in the discussion. Because I was not discussing it in the way that she wanted it dicussed; the discuss of race is over (until I submit and discuss it in an appropriate way)…come on. This is why I ask what the point to more discussion is, it doesn’t not lead to an open and free discussion. It is too hot. As I was driving home from work, I wondered how many of the folks involved in this discussion got up off their chairs and went out to DO something about racism today, how many made a meaningful telephone call, etc.? Action rather than more talk…
February 19th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
berndoubt #162 said, “…Nothing can be done for a problem that isn’t acknowledged.” I couldn’t agree more but how can one say that racism in (rational) America is not acknowledged? So we are pre-discussion now? It first needs to be acknowledged. I think it has been.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Part of the reason that talking doesn’t work is that you’re still not listening. We are living it. I’ve taught my children to live it. I don’t listen to people tell racist jokes. It doesn’t have to be a huge, dramatic thing. It’s every day, little things that make the difference.
No, I didn’t march on Washington since lunchtime. I guess I’m just not committed to the cause. And why is it either or. Either action or talk. How about actions and words.
It’s a beautiful day in America!
February 19th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Here’s the problem, people like Elisabeth think if you cry over the N-word you’ve done something. Or if you don’t switch sides of the street when an African American male is walking towards you you’ve done something.
I agree with you Bern, it’s the way you live your life, it’s what you teach your children, it’s what you really feel in your heart that fights racism.
February 19th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I’m still not listening…I’m still not playing by the discussion rules. Okay. Part of the problem as I see it, is as you said. Talking doesn’t work if someone isn’t listening. Usually if one doesn’t feel like they are being heard, they tend to reemphasize their point. As I did today. I never got the feeling (for the most part) that I was being listened to. But those are the rules of the discussion.
February 19th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
omg so not only is preisdent obama a crazyed monkey with a bad stimulous Jesus ( peace be unto him) does not agree with the stimulous either click name for story
February 19th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
#147 Vickie–
Probably not going to like my answer, but it is my answer
I liked your answer. I agree with most of it too.
I don’t see that so much as racial as economic depravation
I have thought this a lot…. I havent spoken it much because I dont get into a lot of race discussions.
I do know that racism exists still…. although I do believe that more oppression is based on economics instead of race. That is one of the biggest changes of the past 50 years or so.
I dont have any proof of any of it, it is just an observation.
February 19th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
#33, You, Vickie, started off by saying that the cartoon was not, in your opinion, racist, but it was reverse racism that George W. Bush was compared to a chimp.
#41, You, Vickie, said that anyone who saw racism in the cartoon was, in fact, racist.
#43, You, Vickie, said that we are all aware of racism, but it’s not a big item.
There’s more, but I’m tired. You can read your posts. You’ve said many things. I’ve listened. I’ve disagreed.
It’s a beautiful night in America!
February 19th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
#152 Diane from NJ–
Roger has his grab-your-attention Italics, and you have your delicious BOLD. How do you guys do that????
It is a command.
(em) italic text (/em)
(strong) bold text (/strong)
The only difference is… instead of using )( use >< those instead of )(…. it would do the command instead of showing the text.
Try it…. if you are wrong it makes for funny posts lol
February 19th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Stacee…..Thank you for your comments……appreciate them!
Aileen…Thank you for your comments….
…I am so sorry about the experience you had with your shelter…we have two in our county….I believe the one run by the county in my state tries their best…..they not only have dogs and cats….they have abused horses and goats also.
We have three rescue dogs who have made their home with us…and they are all so precious…..with each one having their own little personalities. Their names are Emily Rose, Eleanor and Abigail. We also have a rescue kitty named Miss Stella.
Always enjoy comments…..much food for thought…..Everyone take care….have a good week end. Monica
February 19th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Good Evening Eveyone!
OK - Someone get BW a therapist - STAT!
Is it just me, or is it getting more and more uncomfortable to watch her? Homegirl clearly has some things to work out surrounding money and insecurity - and “out-of-touchness” (yes, I know that is not a real world!)
Why on EARTH would she think that the cartoon had to do with the fact that the chimp had black fur. OMG! Was she actually trying to “dumb it down” for the audience thinking we had no knowledge that Chimps and Monkeys have traditionally been used as a derogatory caricature of black Americans?
Hate to say it Babs, really I do, but it may be time to join that coffee clutch that meets weekdays at 11:00am eastern.
February 19th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
“No, I didn’t march on Washington since lunchtime.”
LOL - Ohhhhhh Lordy. lol
February 19th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
#167 Vickie–
Usually if one doesn’t feel like they are being heard, they tend to reemphasize their point. As I did today. I never got the feeling (for the most part) that I was being listened to. But those are the rules of the discussion.
ya know Vickie…. I think Im following you…. Im not sure, because you are being kinda vague.
So why dont you clarify things for me…. in post #170, berndoubt listed your original statements….. but for some reason I think there is more to your message than those statements….. so Im making you an offer, because I think it might be important.
Vickie what is your opinion on racism in America today?
February 19th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
mibi.
(re: your #168 link) I used that same example on rain’s site one week ago when discussing Halliburton/KBR and the trillions lost in Iraq and on Wall Street and, OH YEAH, on a $700 million US Embassy compound.
I would rather we spend billions on our economy than to see our money stuffed in pizza boxes and delivered to war profiteers in Iraq. Why aren’t the Republicans screaming mad about the billions lost overseas or squandered on Wall Street – to no avail? And I promise you, the Republican obstructionists have their hands out for those stimulus dollars while simultaneously sending a flurry of press releases taking credit for the jobs the stimulus will create. These Republicans are a disgrace.
Here’s my post on rain’s site:
We have become so desensitized – that Billions and Trillions don’t really mean anything to many people.
1,000,000,000,000 = one trillion
A trillion is a million million dollars. If you laid one dollar bills end to end, you could make a chain that stretches from earth to the moon and back again 200 times before you ran out of dollar bills! One trillion dollars would stretch nearly from the earth to the sun. It would take a military jet flying at the speed of sound, reeling out a roll of dollar bills behind it, 14 years before it reeled out one trillion dollar bills.
If you had gone into business on the day Jesus was born, and your business lost a million dollars a day, day in and day out, 365 days a year, it would have taken you until October 2737 to lose a trillion dollars.
2001: It takes more than all of the income taxes collected just to pay the ‘debt service’ (interest) on the national debt. With a 242% increase in the debt and no more income taxes left to pay the debt service, how do you suppose our children and grandchildren are going repay this enormous debt that every American today is leaving them? If you ventured a guess that they’d be taxed at about 73%, you would be pretty close.
2001 US National Debt: $7,937,463,000,000
2009 US National Debt: $10,730,761,492,767
The estimated population of the United States is 305,615,510, so each citizen’s (children too) share of this debt is $35,111.97. The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.45 billion per day since September 28, 2007!
NOW ADD:
Iraq war expected to cost: $3,000,000,000,000
Financial Bailout expected to cost: $3,500,000,000,000
Stimulus Package expected to cost: $800,000,000,000 plus interest
February 20th, 2009 at 12:16 am
I have been busy all day gettin my hair did and babysitting the sweet babies from my daughter.. I have no energy to puruse the posts but I did buy some olives today.. aged parmesan stuffed.. also some bannana peppers stuffed with proscuitto and paresan soaked in olive oil.. I AM IN HEAVEN!!
Tomorrow I will be on the pot all day so dont expect me to post then either..
Thats all I got..
I’m just saying..
February 20th, 2009 at 12:18 am
Oh crap.. I couldnt help myself and perused a sec or 2 and glad I am out of the convo..
Yikes!!!!
February 20th, 2009 at 4:35 am
Vickie what is your opinion on racism in America today?
Roger asked.
I think that racism is institutionalized and held in place by welfare (I’m not blaming the victim; I am blaming the governmet).The worst of poverty and racism was exposed through the events around Katrina. Some people were so used to the gov. providing that they could not even get out of the way of their own death (Mayor Nagan and the governor were primarily responsible through their lack of appropriate action). I think race baiters like Al Sharpton have made an industry of racism. One would have thought that after all of the “talk” about poverty and racism following Katrina and Imus that something more would have been done but the “talk” led to nothing.
Certain music artists are responsible for fanning the flames of racism through the imagery and how they treat women, themselves, attitudes, etc. Some of the black “comedes” put forth the most offensive stereotypes of black people so I think that deepens the “joke” and is harmful to a race of people, creating an attitute that can be racist.
In general, of course there is racism. It exisits without doubt. But as I said before, I think that as a multi-racial society we do a pretty good job of getting along. Maybe I just hang with really decent people but in my world (multi-racial), I don’t have to stop anyone from making racist jokes, etc. The kids around me hardly think about the diversity around them, their friends are just their friends.
I simply asked what more needed to be discussed; as if more dialog is needed. I simply disagree because I think we all know racism exists, we just can’t find a way to end it so we continue to talk. Like being in therapy for years…
So I will say goodbye to you here on this blog. Another one bites the dust. I have really enjoyed some of the discussions and some of the bloggers. It is just too much sometimes and I get sucked in (my own folly) and spend too much time that needs to be spent in other ways. Good wishes to you all.
February 20th, 2009 at 5:50 am
Joy hosted Larry King last night and Ann Coluter was her guest. I have the videos up on my blog if you’d like to check it out.
February 20th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Amazing amateur hour at the New York Post…this is journalism? Personal attacks – “friggin” language; a half-baked apology is no apology at all.
“New York Post apologizes for, yet still defends, chimp cartoon”
NEW YORK (CNN) — A day after publishing a cartoon that drew fire from critics who said it evoked historically racist images, the New York Post apologized in a statement on its Web site — even as it defended its action and blasted some detractors.
February 20th, 2009 at 8:02 am
John Legend -
CNN: In an open letter to The Post, musician John Legend criticized the newspaper and called on New Yorkers not to buy it, or talk to its reporters or buy its advertising space.
Addressing the newspaper’s editors, Legend wrote, “Did it occur to you that our president has been receiving death threats since early in his candidacy? Did it occur to you that blacks have historically been compared to various apes as a way of racist insult and mockery? Did you intend to invoke these painful themes when you printed the cartoon?
“If that’s not what you intended, then it was stupid and willfully ignorant of you not to connect these easily connectable dots. If it is what you intended, then you obviously wanted to be grossly provocative, racist and offensive.”
Either way, Legend said, the fact that the cartoon was printed “is truly reprehensible.”
February 20th, 2009 at 8:04 am
NewsBusters:
The View Repeats Media Myths About Catholic Church; Labels ‘Intolerance’ Biggest Sin
A discussion on The View on Wednesday about sin quickly devolved as the hosts reiterated common media myths about the Catholic Church and its teachings. Elisabeth Hasselbeck read a bogus list of seven “new” sins that the Vatican supposedly came up with…
Elisabeth Hasselbeck replied to Walters by interjecting what she had read in an article about this new study about sin: “No, they did, actually, because this past — last year, the Vatican added seven new sins….They updated the seven. But they — yes, genetic modification, human experimentation, pollution, social injustice — financial gluttony was one of them. So they knew. The Vatican knew.”
One of the possible sources for The View’s discussion of this “new study by the Vatican” is a story from the Daily Telegraph in the UK on Wednesday. Correspondent Alastair Jamieson reported that “[t]he results of survey, which was based on an analysis of confessional data carried out by 95-year-old Jesuit priest and scholar Roberto Busa, have been echoed by the Vatican.” So it was an elderly Catholic priest who originally came up with this insight, not the Vatican.
The Daily Telegraph was also one of the major media outlets who helped perpetuate the myth that the Vatican came up with a list of “new sins” last year, based on an interview of a Catholic bishop who works for a high-level Catholic Church tribunal. During the interview, Bishop Gianfranco Girotti discussed “new forms of social sin,” and gave examples such genetic manipulation and drug trafficking. The newspaper, in its misinterpretation of the bishop’s comments, went so far to say that the bishop’s examples “replaces the list originally drawn up by Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th Century, which included envy, gluttony, greed, lust, wrath and pride.”
February 20th, 2009 at 8:09 am
continued…
Goldberg reacted in disbelief to the supposed list Hasselbeck had read: “Explain to me how you suddenly can write new sins. You can’t — you’re not allowed to do that.” Lapsed Catholic Joy Behar had an explanation for her co-host: “But Whoopi, the Pope is supposed to be infallible, so he can say whatever he wants and people believe it. That’s how it goes.”
Behar’s take on papal infallibility is a common misconception of the concept. According to Catholic doctrine, the Pope is infallible only “when the Roman Pontiff speaks ex cathedra, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians… [as] he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church,” as promulgated by the First Vatican Council. The exercise of this authority has only taken place on very rare occasions, and does not to apply to every single thing the Pope says, as Behar would lead one to think.
The discussion concluded with a discussion on what the hosts though the greatest sin in the world was. Walters asked, “What do you think is the biggest sin?” Behar answered, “Lust among priests — that’s a big one,” in an apparent slam on the Catholic Church. Hasselbeck echoed Behar when she named pedophilia. Goldberg gave a more generically liberal answer: “Intolerance….because Jesus was not intolerant of anybody.” Goldberg must have forgotten the several places in the Bible where Jesus chastised the Pharisees, referring to them as a “brood of vipers” and “hypocrites.” On one occasion, he even rebuked Peter, his own disciple, calling him “Satan.”
February 20th, 2009 at 8:22 am
i commend john legend for his letter.
it had to be said and i wonder if he’s now among the so-called “race baiters” someone has chosen to characterize anyone who dares to speak out against hate.
boycott the post and its sponsors.
if you have any left over copies, use it as litter box or bird cage linings.
and vickie, it’s too bad you’ve decided to exit stage left.
a difference of opinions is welcomed at winnie’s site.
thru dialogue, we see another’s viewpoint.
we can respectfully agree to disagree.
i have no problems with your stances.
i just have a problem when my stances are dismissed as imaginary.
good wishes to you as well.
February 20th, 2009 at 8:35 am
Vickie, you’ve finally given an answer other than to dismiss that which many see as overly racist. I’m glad racism isn’t a problem for you. It’s not much of an issue in my life either, thankfully, but that doesn’t mean it ceases to exist.
I look at it this way. If every child born in this country was treated fairly and given the educational and employment opportunities that every human deserves, we’d have much less crime and incarceration. In the long run, that costs us far fewer dollars. So, in practical ways, it’s better to treat everyone well.
I also think that if we are going to be concerned about God’s little gifts (babies), we can’t give up on them when the going gets tough. We’re all still God’s little gifts, we just got older and more difficult to deal with, now that we can talk back and use that free will we got!
Perhaps if you’d have raised some new issues, as you did after nearly two hundred posts, we could have debated those, but you just kept changing your tune and saying there’s racism…but it’s not a big deal.
Again, great that it’s not a big deal for you, but I remember hearing that which you’ve done for the least of mine, you’ve done for me.
It’s a beautiful day in America!
February 20th, 2009 at 9:15 am
Kelly, thanks for posting the Newsbusters article. Ya know, when I read that Bits had said there are “new sins”, I thought “that’s odd”. But since noone disputed what was said and I am not familiar with the Vatican or it’s edicts.
You’d think they’d have a better research team before putting that types of info out there. Considering how scripted the show is, production HAD to know Bits was going to say what she did.
And if she used World Net Daily UK as a source, that is truly sad. But I would not be the least surprised.
February 20th, 2009 at 9:20 am
I just want to add to this discussion about racism - and what I noticed about 14 years ago or thereabouts.
I raised my child to be a total nonracist, to accept everybody in spite of all our differences, taught the child that good and bad come in all cultures/colors/religions et cetera, and I thought it worked quite well…
until I went to the middle school one day and saw all these kids separated in groups BY CHOICE.
The white kids were hanging out only with white kids, the Hispanic kids were only hanging out only with Hispanic kids, and the black kids were hanging out only with black kids and I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT.
These kids were self-segregating. Most of them I am almost 100% sure were not taught to hate (at home) - these were middle school kids self-segregating themselves. I still, to this very day, don’t get it.
and it is still ongoing in the middle schools (at least in Florida).
February 20th, 2009 at 9:32 am
miamivision,
i hear what you’re saying and i think the behaviour may boil down to one thing: fear of the unknown.
if those kids had gotten to know one another, they’d seen that while some things are different, some are the same.
their music choices, fashion likes/dislikes, aspirations for the future, and any teen angst they’ve experienced. may even be the same or different.
different is fine also, that what makes socializing with others interesting.
it gives one the oppurtunity to expand their perceptions of what makes each other unique.
there is a movement in some schools to have the kids co-mingle during lunch.
i believe it was started by the southern poverty law center.
i feel it is a step in the right direction.
and recently, a high school stopped the long-standing practice of separate proms. i think it was actually the teens themselves who decided enough was enough.
i hope that more schools adopt the practice and allow the young people to see their classmates as what they ultimately are: not that much different under their diverse packaging.
February 20th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Thanks Heatherspeak for that great post! I don’t know if they are doing that in Florida My child is 27 now and so I don’t get to see the schools anymore. I will say my child had friends of all races as a young kid and then the child too self-segregated! Weird, because the best friend was Hispanic from age 3 to age 16.
I do think perhaps gangs may have played a role in this self-segregation stuff.
I think life is too short to go through it hating anybody! Take the best and leave the rest is my motto!!
Thanks again Heatherspeak
February 20th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Vickie says, “The worst of poverty and racism was exposed through the events around Katrina. Some people were so used to the gov. providing that they could not even get out of the way of their own death (Mayor Nagan and the governor were primarily responsible through their lack of appropriate action).”
This is a remarkable piece of regurgitated fallacy put out by FOX/Murdoch and Rush.
Think FEMA director Good-Job-Brownie and his forced resignation.
Think US Army Corps of Engineers report to Washington re: the levies.
Think HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars in federal relief for Florida’s Hurricane Ivan from George W. – who wasted no time landing and posing for photos with brother Jeb during his 2004 re-stolen-election bid.
WHY is this constant exoneration of all things BUSH the mantra of Republicans? Why must they blame everyone but themselves?
The Republicans are the minority party – with 20 million fewer registered voters than the Democrats. As soon as we dismantle the vote-rigging apparatus that forced a near-decade of Republican rule down our collective throats…a worthy political opponent will replace this sad little old party.
I would say Pleasantville Vickie had her first taste of class discrimination. And if 20 million Rush-loyal-Republicans out of 55 million registered Republicans continue down their path of self-destruction, I’d say Vickie better get used to it.
February 20th, 2009 at 10:30 am
“Sherri said that people said that it is monumental for a black man to replace a white man in a major role on a series”
From someone who grew up in the late ’60’s early ’70’s when the only black faces on TV were pimps, hookers, thugs, drug dealers and junkies with very few exceptions of Bill Cosby and Diane Carroll then we have series like “Good Times”, other shows that show poor uneducated blacks. Skip ahead to today where there still aren’t that many people of color on TV (where you can still use your fingers to keep count) and when best actor winners for blacks go to Denzel who won for being a thug cop to Halle Berry who won for her messed up character on Monsters Ball. For me a black woman, and I am sure there are others my age that it is an “oh wow” kind of moment to have that kind of change on a popular TV show on a major network.
February 20th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Great post, Kelly. I remember during Katrina (even before Katrina arrived I think) - the govt/Fema only wanted to fix/rebuild the Levees to only deal with a category 3 hurricane, and those levees needed to be built to withstand a category 5 hurricane….and to this very day they have only been (patched) rebuilt to withstand a category 3.
Yeah, the govt really cares about its people….n.o.t.
February 20th, 2009 at 11:04 am
Exactly MiamiV - New Orleans will flood again - Condi knew it, which is why she said she hopes the government is better prepared next time.
February 20th, 2009 at 11:12 am
miamivision,
gangs may indeed be the reason, i don’t know. i hope not.
it’s been some years for myself also.
i’ll be jumping back into that chapter when my 3 year old starts school.
her siblings are all adults and i wonder what it’ll be like for her high school experience.
about that regurgitated katrina talking point disquised as fact, i’ll just say:
slanted opinions employed to deflect attention on those responsible for their fellow citizens and lay blame at the feet of victims always backfire.
most of the residents weren’t owners of autos that would’ve facilitated a means of evacuation.
given that scenario, what’s the excuse for allowing the conditions at the superdome to fester for many days before help arrived?
why is it that camera crews could get to the people and fema couldn’t?
why were bodies of the evacuees awaiting help left in the streets?
why were evacuees who tried to get to safety shot at and killed?
why did fema allow the use of toxic mobile homes?
what’s the excuse?
the failures that resulted from katrina still make my blood boil.
these superstorms will only get worse and more numerous and fema’s response to katrina was criminal.
watch “when the levees broke”.
or “katrina’s hidden race war” by democracy now.
it shines a light on the catastrophe.
February 20th, 2009 at 11:13 am
It’s hard to pull yourself up by your bootstraps when you don’t have boots.
February 20th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Spike Lee is really annoyed with that half-baked apology from the NY Post….click on my name for MSNBC article on same.
Kelly - with Hurricanes, there will ALWAYS be a next time! Especially up in the NOLA area (gulf). We should have been ready YEARS AND YEARS AGO for a category 5 hurricane - all along the areas of low-lying land in the gulf as a matter of fact from Texas to Florida - that huge horseshoe type semi-circle.
I also think that Bush couldn’t deal with poverty and is why what happened to NOLA did happen. I also think SOME PARTICULAR people were secretly hoping to get rid of all the poverty there and begin a new city - this just reeks of the New World Order and the New American 21st Century Stuff, the CFR and all that jazz. Makes me wanna puke!
Heatherspeak! Didn’t Spike Lee make “when the levees broke”? I saw it! I have always loved his movies and documentaries. As for gangs, I just heard that our 4 counties here in south florida (out of 67 counties in the state), Monroe, Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties, have formed a new 7-task TASK FORCE due to gangs. They said there are 1500 gangs in S. Florida (or Florida) actually totaling 65,000 creeps. However, I think they only meant SOUTH FLORIDA - where the 4 counties are…don’t know for sure…but they are giving $$ to the task forces to take charge now before the gang situation gets out of hand here in Florida. So, I suppose it is far greater a problem here in S. Florida than Orlando - and as a matter of fact, there is a lot of crime in Orlando but plenty of people from Miami have of late relocated to Orlando area.
February 20th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
miamivision,
yes, spike lee is the director of the documentary. if i’m not mistaken, he wants to do a follow-up doc to it to see the progress made/not made since katrina.
gangs are here in maryland too.
they’ve seem to infiltrated each state now.
our local law enforcements have created task forces also.
February 20th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
#192. Misslingdow,
Excellent points.
““The worst of poverty and racism was exposed through the events around Katrina. Some people were so used to the gov. providing that they could not even get out of the way of their own death (Mayor Nagan and the governor were primarily responsible through their lack of appropriate action).”
Do you know any of the people who lived there? Does your logic apply to those who were well off and refused to leave their homes.
Some of the people there were the working poor. Some were too sick to leave their homes. Is it really wrong to think that the government that we pay taxes to will provide safe shelter for us if a hurricane comes?
Is that really asking too much? Bush put a guy who was a horse show judge in charge of FEMA. For you to shift the blame to everyone else but Bush, is just laughable!
February 20th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Oh yeah I know MiamiVision. I meant Condi knew the Levees would break again because they have not been rebuilt to withstand the force as you mentioned. Global Warming – denied for decades by the Republicans – will see to it that New Orleans will soon be permanently under water.
I have “When the Levees Broke” in my NetFlix – and just watched Hacking Democracy now and am sick with rage. Election officials always knew about Diebold, and Diebold and the Republicans lied and pushed their vote-flipping machines through district after district – usually heavily Democratic districts like Cuyhoga County in Cleveland. Republican official after Republican official buried the protest, proof, dissent and killed our Democracy. It’s not even possible that we are witness to so much corruption that has left America bankrupted and broken for years and years to come, and there is no revolution. Where is the outrage? We have over 4000 dead soldiers – where is the outrage?
Americans deserve to loose everything they have if that’s what it takes to get them to fight for their rights.
Diebold machines have been rigging elections for years for the Republicans. Palin was elected on a Diebold. And her election was also investigated for vote count irregularity, and dismissed by more Republicans. They are all in on it.
Mike McConnell – vote flipper software expert for Bush/Rove was killed in a plane crash in Ohio – and his company was hired to count the votes in California on Proposition 8. I don’t doubt for a minute that those votes were flipped – which means you can count the Mormons among the criminals responsible for treason.
Do you all remember this chant from the Republicans, “Get over it. We won.”
We’ll they didn’t.
I’m going to watch “Hacking Democracy” again. Cliff Arnebeck (Ohio Election Attorney) is in the documentary – and Cliff was the man who saved the 2008 election by putting Mike McConnell on the witness stand the day before the election – and Rove called off the vote flippers.
February 20th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
“Is it really wrong to think that the government that we pay taxes to will provide safe shelter for us if a hurricane comes? ”
Bush never seemed to have a problem when a hurrican was heading to Florida or Texas. In my heart of hearts I really don’t think Bush really cared about NO. His own mother said that the evacuees that were coming to Texas would like all the assistance they were getting and wouldn’t want to leave because it was so much better than what they were used to. I think it’s safe to say Bush acquired his ignorance genetically.
I also read that Condi Rice was shopping for expensive shoes in NYC when Katrina was happening. It just seemed like Bush’s entire team just didn’t care about things that didn’t directly effect them.
February 20th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
GlobalResearch.ca
The easy smile on Kerry’s face as he conceded to Bush should have made a few things clear.
There are reasons why Kerry conceded so quickly, there are reasons why he never mentioned a single instance of voter fraud or intimidation throughout the day on November 2nd as widespread evidence of disenfranchisement was surfacing (at least through independent media outlets) and there are reasons why he didn’t use his concession speech as an opportunity to articulate even mild opposition to Bush policies.
The reasons are rooted in the fact that Kerry has much more allegiance to elite power in the U.S. than he has or ever will have to the millions of disenfranchised and unrepresented voters in this country.
Speaking out against voter fraud would carry an implicit challenge to the myth of American democracy.
Why should Kerry take the risk of challenging the legitimacy of the system? He is a pro-war, neo-liberal imperialist of the millionaire class. He has nothing to lose and much to gain from another 4 years of the Bush administration.
Given this realization, it’s critical that everyone, from the Democrats who actually saw Kerry as an alternative to the liberals who merely wanted “anyone but Bush” conduct a serious interrogation of how the notion of “electability” dominated political discourse leading up the Democratic primaries.
February 20th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Kelly - I’M TOTALLY OUTRAGED by the Diebold fiasco - it happened here and in Ohio first. I have been outraged since 2000! I’m still outraged - we are slowly losing this democracy and our rights…..
Heatherspeak - thanks for letting me know about the task forces in Maryland now too! You’re right about gang infiltration - it’s in every state. And many different types of gangs, not just like MS-13. Don’t google that either because it might scare US ALL. I have googled it, frightening. But I guess as the mafia died out, somebody/something was gonna take its place. Though back in the days, I used to say the mafia/govt were one and the same. I probably was not terribly off-base.
LOL
i tried posting this twice and got some bad error and a timeout from here….dunno…hopefully this one will go.
February 20th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Kelly said: Bush never seemed to have a problem when a hurrican was heading to Florida or Texas. In my heart of hearts I really don’t think Bush really cared about NO. His own mother said that the evacuees that were coming to Texas would like all the assistance they were getting and wouldn’t want to leave because it was so much better than what they were used to. I think it’s safe to say Bush acquired his ignorance genetically…
———————–
Let me tell you all about Mrs. Barbara Bush and what she did - the elder. She acted like she was a big deal when she turned over I think $3 million in software/hardware to NOLA after Katrina, acted like she was doing a WONDERFUL thing.
Do you know who owned the software/hardware company? Her other son, Neil. They shelled out nothing to help the folks in NOLA. The son got a huge tax deduction.
Fook the bush dynasty……..so glad they are gone - though Jeb is in the background - but I think the USA is just tired of ALL the Bushs
Karma is a wonderful thing - what goes around will come back around and bite them all on their arses.