The View Recap November 19th, 2008: Denis Leary, Thomas Beattie, and Katherine McPhee
There will not be a recap of today’s episode of The View posted, although I will try to post links to video later tonight. Feel free to comment here about today’s episode. The scheduled guests are Denis Leary, Thomas Beattie (the pregnant man) along with his wife Karen, and Katherine McPhee.
UPDATE: I have found the videos of today’s episode on YouTube. Unfortunately, the YouTube user has disabled the embedding feature, so I cannot post them here. You have to go directly to the YouTube page in order to see the videos. The user does have all parts of the show available, though, so be sure to check it out if you want to see any of the segments. You can check out the page, where you can get all the videos at the user’s page: lester94111.
The View, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Joy Behar, Barbara Walters Whoopi Goldberg, Sherri Shepherd, Denis Leary, Thomas Beattie, and Katherine McPhee
November 19th, 2008 at 11:21 am
If Barbara had gotten the interview with Ashely DuPres (Eliott Spitzers hooker) instead of Diane Sawyer I bet their discussion of her would have been different.
If the View is on the air for the duration of Obama’s term in office Elisabeth is going to criticize every decision made. If Obama doesn’t use lies as a reason for invading a country, understands the Constitution, and avoids alienating our Allies he will already be miles better than his predecessor.
I thought Sherri looked uncomfortable during the Thomas Beattie and family interview.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Sherri was, indeed, uncomfortable during the Thomas Beattie/family interview. And, she wasn’t the only one. All of them had a look of disbelief! Wish they had scanned the audience.
This is a PERFECT example of self serving gay adults who have absolutely no regard for what their children will have to deal with in explaining to their friends that their dad carried them in HIS womb. I say, “save it for the circus.”
Anyone who says the Beattie children will be “okay” and “will adjust” needs to take a giant step back into the real world.
I also agree with Elisabeth that the media at least needs to wait until Obama has actually been sworn in before comparing him to Abraham Lincoln.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
The tension on today’s show WAS THICK!!
Why in the world did BG have EH run the interview with the Beattie Family? Yes,I know it was awkward, up she sunk like The Titanic!! The only intelligent thing she said was that the baby is adorable.
Oprah already had them on her show. She handled it in an open, intelligent manner.
BW really needs to retire. And EH today…
oh dear.
November 19th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Let’s also wait until he’s sworn in to compare him to Hitler or Marx.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
#2 Diane10
I believe that the Beattie children will be just fine. Will they have some difficulties? Of course they will, everyone does…just think of the millions of foster children in the world who born to straight couples. But these children are much more likely to grow up as loving, compassionate people than children raised in a closed-minded, bigoted home.
As far as “self-serving gays”, I believe it is self-serving to attack the rights of others based on a bias and not on the facts.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
#2 Diane10–
Anyone who says the Beattie children will be “okay” and “will adjust” needs to take a giant step back into the real world.
Can u give us any examples that makes you believe that these children will be any different than your children or grandchildren?
You were asked yesterday and didnt answer….. if your grandchildren turn out to be gay…. how will u treat them different?
November 19th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Re:#5
To clarify my comment I should have said;
But the ‘Beattie children’ are much more likely to grow up as loving, compassionate people than children raised in a closed-minded, bigoted home.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
I didn’t see the show.
I did however watch B.W. special the other night with the Beattie family.
I found it fairly interesting.
Judging from what i saw and heard, I think their children will be fine and I think well adjusted. This was only an hour T.V program, but, I got the impression that the parents were aware of all the questions their children would ask, (and others, of their children). They seemed prepared to handle that in an appropriate way.
They are definately very much wanted children, by my impression, very loving parents. That’s the best start any family can hope for.
So I’m happy for them, and I hope things go very well for them.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
diane10 - wow - “self serving gay adults” - really? I certainly hope you’re not one of those people who gets pissed off when people imply you’re a bigot or a hypocrite - because, judging from your comment, you are. Saying that gay adults who want to experience the joys (and pitfalls) of parenthood are selfish is a gross generalization based on your myopic view of the world. And ‘yes!’ your comment is ripe with bigotry.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
On a lighter note, Denis Leary was great as always. I’d love to see him as guest host sometime. Actually, I think there should be a week or two of guest hosts to kind of let everything cool down.
Will EH ever address her diss of Michele Obama? I wish someone would call her on that.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Lurker
ITA about guest hosts-that would be great, freshen things up. Denis Leary was great, I want to pick up his book. He does alot for his community, as well as firefighters. I wish they had more time with him.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
As for the Beattie children, there will be challenges but love will help. The more mainstream gays become the easier it will be on them and the children of gay couples. All children face some sort of hurdles, at least not being loved and wanted won’t be one of the issues they will have to deal with.
I have said it before, I live in a very gay-friendly town. In our schools here there are children from both heterosexual parents and gay parents, its not a big issue. There are gay couples everywhere here and we all get along just fine. In my neighborhood it is probably 60/70% gay. I am sure at some point children from both lifestyles ask why the others are different from them.
When I was a kid there was an inter-racial couple that both taught at my school. I didn’t realize there was anything considered “wrong” until I heard on TV that it was taboo in some cities and towns. Our town excepted them and no one had a problem with it.
I think that eventually it will be the same for gay families. If children are taught tolerence of people’s differences they will be just fine.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I have a 16 yr old bi-racial son and when I was pregnant with him more than a few people told me he wouldn’t have an easy time growing up. Well he has been growing up just fine and now he has a President Elect who is a role model for him. I think the children of gay people will be fine as long as mean, hateful, close-minded people don’t treat them as badly as they seem to treat their gay parents.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
#2 Diane10
“Anyone who says the Beattie children will be “okay” and “will adjust” needs to take a giant step back into the real world.”
It’s funny for me because your comment made me think of Rachel Anna (a blogger), and “her view” of what the real world is. To me, what she says makes me think that she believes that the real world has a better future, and that its future includes tolerance and love. I concur. She has stated that she is from EH’s generation and I’m in between WH’s and Joy’s; it’s good be able to pass the torch for tolerance. When I was younger there was little acceptance for my liberal world view but I stated it and lived it anyway.
So thanks Diane10, for making me think…I don’t know where all this came from but I’m glad it did.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I like visiting this “echo chamber” from time to time. You are a very small group of people who seem to need constant validation on your beliefs. The echo chamber provides this for you.
All three of the democrats looked extremely uncomfortable interviewing this “lovely” family. Wonder why? I would like to believe that all four women were thinking “how can you bring two children into this circus arena?”
Liberals generally resort to name calling when people don’t see things their way. It’s actually comical…not only do you want republicans to see things your way but you also want us to like it!
I don’t believe gay couples should have children. There’s not enough data to support that it CAN be a healthy environment for children. Why would anyone take the risk?
November 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Diane10, YOU don’t believe gay couples should have children. I don’t think it is any of your business. There is plenty of data to support that children raised in abusive violent homes grow up to be that way so why is it so hard to believe children raised in a loving home will grow up to be loving adults.
I happen to think it’s Republicans who want everyone to see things there way. Anti-choice and anti-gay marriage are just two examples.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
I find that people that make EVERYTHING about being Democratic vs Republican really need to step outside the box more.
And when someone states that in their supposed opinion, I know they are just here to rile, not to relate or discuss.
November 19th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
The idea that gay people shouldn’t have children is beyond ridiculous. How a kid turns out has nothing to do with whether his parent is gay or not…it’s the values and character instilled in them. I mean if I had a child I had to place into a home and Ellen Degeneres applied and Paris Hilton applied…who do you think that kid would turn out better with?
November 19th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Children live what they are taught. I agree with that. I think I just made my point.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
@susieq We disagree. I believe they shouldn’t have children and you believe they should. However, please don’t go through the rest of your life thinking that “love conquers all.” It doesn’t. Good choices for children laced with alot of love seems like a good formula to me.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Hey diane10 – so glad to see ya!
Speaking of dysfunction…there was once a child who grew-up in a broken family that moved him around from home to home. This family was severely divided; the father divorced his mother when he was only two and left the country, only visiting his son once before dying in an automobile accident. His mother remarried and relocated the family out of the country, but the child retuned to the states where his grandmother raised him. He would soon lose his mother to cancer. And then his grandmother passed away before she could see him reach his true potential. Did I mention the son was biracial?
Anyway, despite the lack of ‘normalcy’ in this family, President-elected Obama turned out just fine…or maybe because of?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
If children are taught to follow their heart and love people unconditionally for who they are they will. If they are taught to hate and villify others, they will.
My best friend was raised by two openly gay men, she in no way grew up in a “circus arena” or is screwed up because of it. She’s a highly successful woman who is happily married and expecting her first baby.
diane10- just because you think that doesn’t make it so.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Hey, Kelly, really good to see ya, too.
Obama owes his strict upbringing to his grandmother. Old people have old values. Pretty good aren’t they? There are many good stories like his.
However, we are talking about a transvestite having two babies who is shouting to the media…”Look at me…I’m a man and I’m pregnant.” What affect will that have on the children later in their lives? The embarrassment alone will be difficult.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Just watched the first segment. I am again disappointed. None of these women knew what happened with prostitution decriminalization in San Fran? Really? None of them read the paper? Especially when they’re going to be talking about Spitzer and prostitution?
Joy went off about how people know understand that they can become celebrities by acting badly. Was that directed at Hasselbeck? I hope so. Because that’s exactly how her star has risen…
November 19th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Diane10, please see my explanation from yesterday for how to make this simple explanation to children. Why would it affect them in any way? I don’t remember being born… do you?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
re: 23 “now understand”
November 19th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Diane10–
Hi again…. I take it you missed my #6 post, since u didnt answer it like u did others that commented to you. So Ill repeat it again….
Can u give us any examples that makes you believe that these children will be any different than your children or grandchildren?
You were asked yesterday and didnt answer….. if your grandchildren turn out to be gay…. how will u treat them different?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
please dont be embarrassed
November 19th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Children live what they see. We will have a generation of children who might grow up to believe that having sex with a person of the same sex is normal. Why? Because they live it.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
#23 Rachel Anna–
None of these women knew what happened with prostitution decriminalization in San Fran
I didnt know the results either.. .. didnt even know it was on the ballot…. they didnt pass the proposition (I checked)…… Im gonna cancel my trip to San Francisco now /snark
November 19th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
So what if they believe it’s normal? How does that harm anyone?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
LOL Roger, but you’re not on a tv show about to talk about prostitution. I trust you would do the research ahead of time… No?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
And it was a featured prop story in many newspapers after the election… these women should’ve known. I’m surprised Hasselbeck didn’t latch onto it to say that even the most liberal city in the US didn’t go for it…
November 19th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Roger, like you I am not embarrassed to voice my opinion.
My children were raised that children come first. If I have a gay grandchild I would encourage he/she not to compound the problems they face by bringing children into their lives. Be gay! Be lesbian! But don’t subject innocent children to a very different lifestyle and then cross your fingers that they will be normal. Too risky and not a good choice for the child.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Diane10–
Havent we had a few generations that thought normal was marry someone then go out and sleep with others….. normal is 50% divorce rate…
dont you think some of those things should stop being normal?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Diane10, I secretly think you would enjoy licking it.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
the only problems that gay people face are the barriers and the discrimination that “normal” people put them through…
November 19th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Diane,
The “problems” gay people face may not have to be problems if people didn’t see it as problems.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
#33 diane10–
Roger, like you I am not embarrassed to voice my opinion.
Dang it….. u figured me out…. Im embarrassed about how I really feel so I mask it by “pretending” to be liberal….. we should hang out diane10
My children were raised that children come first. If I have a gay grandchild I would encourage he/she not to compound the problems they face by bringing children into their lives.
Im really sorry that you would believe something like that about your grandchildren… if they turn out to be gay… dont compound their problem with more love in their lives…. Why did u have children? or (like most from your generation) did you “have” to get married because you didnt have a choice after fooling around?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
2004 According to the Census Bureau, of the country’s nearly half a million same-sex couples, nearly a quarter — 28 percent — are raising children.
NPR: Studies on Children of Gay Couples Spark Controversy
Morning Edition, May 24, 2004 · The best interest of children is at the center of the debate over gay marriage. Some scientific studies show no developmental differences between children raised by heterosexual and homosexual parents. But critics charge these studies are conducted to support the legitimacy of same-sex marriage.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1907673
November 19th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
my problem with beattie is that he is putting his family in the spot light and i’m not sure he had to. I did not see show so i am not sure what was said. I kind of with comedian that said the secret ot being a pregant man is having a uterus and va jay jay.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I think the way they treated Beatie and his wife and daughter was abominable. Especially EH and SS. They make faces like spoiled 12 year-olds. It’s appalling to me, and I hope they apologize to the family backstage.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Being gay is what you are, not taught or what you grow up seeing. That is why this world is so screwed up and will continue to be because of ignorance and intolerance. If a person is gay and decides to have a child, shut up and look the other way. It is none of your buisness!
November 19th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Saying that an adult shouldnt do ____ (enter sin there) because it might effect children, is probably the worse argument invented. That is actually the last argument. If your child is effected badly because the 2 guys next door got married… then you did a poor job raising your child.
If you cant understand something that your child is asking then improve your mind and find the answer. If you try and hide something from your child they will find it without your help…. and how is that helping your child?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
since we are talking about Thomas Beatie… here is my take…
I dont understand what makes him “legally male” He doesnt have a wiener… he has all his female parts except breasts…. he doesnt even take testosterone treatments any more.
If I got a boob job would I then be able to call myself a female?
I just dont see what makes him male.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
APA: American Psychological Association:
In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbian women or gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of lesbian women or gay men is compromised relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of lesbian or gay parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children’s psychosocial growth.
http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgpconclusion.html
November 19th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
#43
He’s not legally a male..the reason he’s not taking testosterone anymore is because he/she/it is pregnant again.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Well, Roger, he has been taking hormones to turn himself into a “male.” He stopped taking the hormones when “he” became pregnant so as not to hurt the fetus. The whole thing is absurd. He is a transvestite. As such, he is the role model for his children. Sad, isn’t it?
I’m sure you meant “affected” badly by the two guys next door well, you are too far out there for me to understand. Since they don’t live under his roof as his role models then perhaps I’ve missed another of your valuable points.
You must not have children. Children live what they see and hear.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
#40 mibi
My take on that - if this family is using the media to bring awareness, discussion and a ‘face’ to this issue – then that’s a good thing. They are entitled to have children, and bringing this out into the open is the first step towards acceptance/tolerance.
If this family is using the media for personal gain…than I too find that unfortunate because I feel that would speak to their character.
I didn’t see The View or Bab’s special…so I don’t know.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
They’re definitely not “using the media”… that’s absurd. And if “using the media” for fame and fortune is a bad thing, get rid of Hasselbeck.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Rachel Anna, it should be equally as appalling to you that Whoopi and Joy seemed every bit as uncomfortable as Sherri and Elisabeth.
I feel for the two children. God only knows when Mom and Dad will, once again, bring the media in again to start another circus freak show.
That’s my point. And, it is a sad point that I make.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Diane10, if children live what they see and hear, then your children must be bigoted jerks. I would tell your children to stop having their own children so they don’t compound their problems.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
The only gays people I personally are guys and they dont have any kids. But I do remember a special epiosde of the view when rosie was on and they had a gay couple on and they had adopted 2 of the cutest little girls. and everyone was like only gay guys could have such perfect couffed kids. so there a positive .j/k
November 19th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Joy and Whoopi did not seem appalled at all. They were curious, sure, but they didn’t make childish faces like the other two. The other two should check themselves. Their combined IQ is well below a “normal” level.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
@mibi I whole heartedly agree with you. When I referred earlier to the Beattie’s being self serving adult gays…that’s where I was going. The media coverage is for them…but who do they hurt in the end? Obviously, they want the negative attention which will ultimately hurt their children.
I’m very sad about the Beatie’s and the bad choices they have now made for their children with regard to the media and the sensationalism factor. I love and adore children. I live my life for my children and my grandchildren. My children know that I will pay for my grandchildren’s college education. They are that important to me. I have a hard time when people put children at risk.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
I love how the very people who make it hard for anyone to be different from their limited view of the world are the ones who are worried about how they will be treated. Solution: don’t treat them differently and we won’t have to worry about it. Simple.
I know the bigoted family member of an in-law who was mad that a vendor sent him a black salesman and wasn’t going to buy from the salesman, but then would be the first to say that he wasn’t successful because he was black. RIGHT! Since you and the rest of the bigots won’t buy from him, he won’t be successful and you can click your tongue that even though we have affirmative action, which you think is unfair, he still couldn’t succeed because he’s somehow inferior. No, he’s not. You’re an idiot and you won’t give him a chance, which is why we need affirmative action, because idiots like you won’t do what you’re supposed to do without being forced to do it.
If you have a problem with diversity, go somewhere else, please for the sake of the rest of us. And, yeah, I’m intolerant of intolerance. Tough.
It’s a new day in America. Get used to it!
November 19th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Guys, didn’t yesterday’s get hijacked? I remember comments about a troll. There is a litmus test of “I know one when I see one” and I think we have a winner.
Why does EH get to talk uninterrupted? I don’t get it. The others try to respond to an EH comment and she cannot stfu (excuse my french) for one blasted second. Thank heaven for the mute button because as soon as Whoopi started talking with the “accent”, presto, no sound! The “what the hell” theme should go away now- it’s not amusing or clever.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Wberndoubt Excellent…spoken like a true democrat. If you don’t see it my way…
I don’t have a problem with diversity. Get the message loud and clear. I care about the children. So should you.
And, remember, the only reason Obama turned out the way he did was due to his grandmother who had old values and raised him the way she was raised. Old values work, my dear. Just look around you. Old values got your candidate elected as President of the United States. Chew on that.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
It just really disturbs me how easy it is for everyone to judge gays, transgenders, etc. I am straight, but I often wonder if I happened to be born gay or felt like I am in the wrong body. You don’t have to understand it or agree with it, but to pass judgement when you can’t relate to what these people are going through is just plain wrong. There’s only one real judge in this world and I’ll leave the work to Him. Be careful how you judge people. What if your future child or grandchild ends up being one of the groups you despise so much. Science has pretty much proven people are born this way. Who in the world would choose to be ostricized by society!
November 19th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Diane10, before you poo-poo other people or views or lifestyles, it’s always wise to take a whiff of your own behind. You might just find that IT STINKS.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Wow diane10. I found it hard to believe that EH actually subscribes to the absurdities she’s parroting - “It’s ok to be gay, marry whoever you want, just not someone of the same sex” - but apparently there are those of you out there who do.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
#33 ooohhh Diane10, not so much
Have you ever seen a movie called “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner”(1967)? At that time it was thought that interracial marriages would produce children who would be discriminated against, so they shouldn’t have them. My father an educator who taught tolerance, and yet when I dated someone of my own culture, but of a different racial background, he said (similar to you) that the children would have a problem. He meant well, but delightfully, due to your last American election he was proven wrong (I believe he would have loved to be proven wrong).
November 19th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
The old values that Obama was raised with include hold no judgement against others, never think your view is the only view or the right view for that matter. Live your life as you see fit and don’t impose religous or moral values onto others.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
OMG why is this even news why do i see these people on my screen. OK i know there having a baby so what this was a women who took pills and grow a mustache she not a man she was born a women that why she still can have kids. i am sorry to sound harsh but i don’t give a rat butt about these people i am sorry are we as American got that dumb we cant tell. like give me a man who was born a man who has no female in him now that is a story. Not a wanna be man
because in my eyes he/she will always be a women.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Are old values what got Sarah Palin’s daughter pregnant as well?
November 19th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
No. It was the world’s oldest profession.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
diane10–
you concern me…. listen to some of your posts…..
I don’t have a problem with diversity. Get the message loud and clear. I care about the children. So should you.
My children know that I will pay for my grandchildren’s college education. They are that important to me. I have a hard time when people put children at risk.
Children live what they see and hear.
don’t subject innocent children to a very different lifestyle and then cross your fingers that they will be normal. Too risky and not a good choice for the child.
This is a PERFECT example of self serving gay adults who have absolutely no regard for what their children
I don’t believe gay couples should have children. There’s not enough data to support that it CAN be a healthy environment for children. Why would anyone take the risk?
What affect will that have on the children later in their lives? The embarrassment alone will be difficult.
You seem like something happened when you were a child to expect children to be treated badly in families other than yours. If I were your children I would be concerned about leaving your grandchildren alone with you. Children believe the hate and disrespect that adults say around them… children dont expect the adults that surround them to lie to them. You should get help before you help to advance another generation of hate to come from you.
It isnt too late Diane10… not yet.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Diane10..You just need to educate yourself a bit more because you are here for SOME reason.. what is it? to try to change the reality that people are BORN gay?
T Baattie is NOT transvestite.
He’s Trans gendered.. which means, as he says, his brain is wired as a Male even though his body had female sex aspects.
He IS declared legally a male, he does have a penis which is created whne they use testosterone and the clitoris enlarges. Apparently iT IS big enough for him to have sex with his wife…
I am starting to agree with the EH detractors.. she iS a total pain and won’t stop being negative until she’s gone or warned.. and will BW.. after all she’s getting the ratings from the “assigned” roles of the cat fights!!
November 19th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
#55, “I care about the children. So should you.”
REALLY? Wow. You don’t know me, but let me repeat something I wrote yesterday and you can tell me what part tells you that I don’t care (and a little sidenote, I have my teenage daughter over my shoulder as I compose this and she’d make me take out anything that wasn’t true, oh and we’re watching the Thomas Beattie clip from today’s show and she is just fine):
We’re so traditional in every other way, it’s ridiculous. In fact, that’s something I’d like to address to the lurking trolls. I have what may be one of the MOST traditional, fifties-style, two kids, stay-at-home mom lives ever in all of history. Between me and my husband we’ve coached soccer and baseball, been team mom countless times, taught Religious Education at a Catholic church, led Girl Scout troops and Boy Scouts packs, run the Fun Fair at the elementary school, and had our kids march in the Fourth of July parade. I’m sure there’s more that I’m forgetting, but suffice it to say, as you can see from my resume, we’re as baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet as they get. We even live in the Midwest in real America. So, if I decide to live that way does it mean that everybody has to live that way? I don’t think so. Live the way you want. It doesn’t affect me in the least. As someone else said earlier, if God gave us free will, who among us has the power to take it away?
November 19th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
#48 Hey Rachel Anna
I was addressing mibi’s comment on why I thought he chose to share his story – Big Difference than saying I think he used the media.
Like I said, I didn’t see the show – I can’t confirm his motives.
Mibi said, “my problem with beattie is that he is putting his family in the spot light and i’m not sure he had to. I did not see show so i am not sure what was said.”
I said, “My take on that - if this family is using the media to bring awareness, discussion and a ‘face’ to this issue – then that’s a good thing. They are entitled to have children, and bringing this out into the open is the first step towards acceptance/tolerance.
If this family is using the media for personal gain…than I too find that unfortunate because I feel that would speak to their character.
I didn’t see The View or Bab’s special…so I don’t know.”
November 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Bravo Roger!!!
November 19th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
He shared his story because there are legal implications to the child’s custody should he die. His wife is not legally the child’s parent.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Thanks Lopez.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Wow,Diane10 - I tried to give you an example of how a Christian should be according to Jesus yesterday, but I guess you’re one of those Evangelical Republicans that think you are better than Jesus.
You didn’t die on the cross,you are not perfect. I’m a Christian that has the sense enough to know that it is not up to me to judge how people live their lives. I can only pray and look in my mirror and tell myself to treat others they way I would want to be treated.
Man, no wonder people are so turned off by Christians, do you know ever since Bush took office the many times I had to tell people that would ask me questions like, If you’re a Christian like Bush, no thanks! Because the law breaking, and blatant lies the Bush administration did while calling themselves Christians was horrid. I have to tell people, I’m not “that kind of Christian,” and you know something I thought they learned their lesson, but when they chose Palin, I realized here we go again. She can mess up, she can have a pregnant teenager, but nobody else can. Stop trying to preach, again you’re not Jesus. ONLY HE CAN TRULY JUDGE. If you don’t like the Beattie’s don’t watch them on television, and don’t buy the magazines they may be in. Another thing you may want to know when you spew hate on something it usually comes back to haunt you.
Do you get it Diane10? God works in mysterious ways…
November 19th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Hey Kelly!
I didn’t think I was responding specifically to you (I guess the quoatations were confusing). I just know that that idea is out there…. I think it’s absurd.
November 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Guess I should not comment before seeing a video or reading a recap. I see he was promoting a book and they had legal question when they first went public. so that makes since.
November 19th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I still dont get it…. I dont see what “legally makes him a man”
he doesnt take testosterone any more because of the new baby….. I know Im probably being insensitive…. but I see him as a woman that had her breasts removed and got a hair cut. It cant be the mustache…… my brother cant grow much facial hair but he is a dude (as far as I know)
I have long hair…. if I got a boob job could I legally claim to be a woman?
there has to be more to it…… but I dont know what makes Thomas Beatie a Legal man.
I must be missing something.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
#71
Roger
He knows who he is…why should we worry
November 19th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
#55, “Wberndoubt Excellent…spoken like a true democrat. If you don’t see it my way…”
One more thing, diane10, I don’t want to legislate it so you have to live the way I’ve chosen to live. In fact, just the opposite. I want you to live whatever way you want. It’s not my business who you marry or how many kids you have or how you raise them or what religion you practice or don’t practice. Just like it’s not your business how I live my life. I don’t want your morals to dictate the laws. It doesn’t affect you in any way to let everyone live the way they want, so why are you undies in such a bunch about it?
November 19th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
“It doesn’t affect you in any way to let everyone live the way they want, so why are you undies in such a bunch about it?”
It should be YOUR undies.
November 19th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
I make more typos than anyone on this blog….that said re: #74…u go friend and thanks
November 19th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Guys - someone just posted on the off-topic thread about “dickipedia” - there’s an entry for Elisabeth Hasselbeck. It’s pretty funny, and the whole thing is more elaborate than what’s posted on the offtopic thread.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
#77 Joey–
He knows who he is…why should we worry
It isnt about worry Joey…. but this person is on TV promoting his book telling about his life. Im asking questions out of understanding. If someone is gonna put something in my face Id like to understand it.
Thats why I ask…. How is this person legally a man? What I know is she had her breasts removed, got her hair cut…. took enough steroids to grow facial hair, then had a baby….. so what makes her a man?
November 19th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Roger, I am not sure what “legally” defines her as a man, but “HE” has asked to be considered as such. It’s kind of rude to keep saying “she.” Frankly, I’m surprised by your “something in my face” attitude - I thought you were a compassionate man who understood that different people go through different trials in life.
I applaud him for speaking up about his situation. Many people feel that they’re born in the wrong bodies. Now they have a voice.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
#83 rachel anna–
I wasnt trying to be rude….. he was a she when she had all of that work done….. Now that the work was done she is now a “HE”. I get that and I respect his wishes too.
The “in my face” attitude was because Joey was questioning me on why I was “worried” about it.
I am sorry that you dont think I have compassion because Im questioning something that I dont understand. If you understand it please enlighten me…. if you dont understand it, why arent you asking questions?
I thought he was going on TV to spread understanding, if one is labeled as non compassionate because questions are asked…. how can understanding be found?
November 19th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Two things: He’s always felt like a man AND he has a penis. He had sex reassignment surgey on the outside, but kept his insides in tact.
As his wife said on The View, she had her ovaries removed. That doesn’t make her less of a woman. He has his ovaries and that doesn’t make him any less of a man.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
From Wiki - Transgender and the Law
Legal procedures exist in some jurisdictions allowing an individual to change their legal gender, or their name, to reflect their gender identity. Requirements for these procedures vary from an explicit formal diagnosis of transsexualism, to a diagnosis of gender identity disorder, to a letter from a physician attesting to the individual’s gender transition, or the fact that one has established a different gender role
November 19th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Thank you, Lopez.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
This whole issue came about because the birth certificate of the first baby listed Thomas as “parent”. He wants to have the law able to state this in future.
He has been declared a legal Male by the required medical procedures.. so he and his wife are “legally” married. There isn’t any problem with them both being the legal “parents” of the first and future children.
T Beattie’s point, again, is that since he HAS been legally declared a MAN.. but the law is messed up about HIM giving birth. Is HE the Mother or Father??
THAT is why they went public.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Sorry.. I missed syaing Thomas wants the Birth certificate to state HE is the Father..not “parent”
November 19th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
#85 Lopez–
Two things: He’s always felt like a man AND he has a penis. He had sex reassignment surgey on the outside, but kept his insides in tact.
This is where the misunderstanding is coming from. Im really not trying to be argumentative.
When this first came up, I made a comment about the “sex change operation” and I was quickly corrected…. I was told that he didnt have the surgery on the outside.
I also remember that Barbara said on The View, that they have sex the same way that men and women have sex. When he was getting the testosterone treatments, his clitoris “grew some”
Im only looking for factual understanding…. I hate when “because” is supposed to be the answer.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Roger - You asked for the legal reason. Post number 86 explains some facts.
Here’s Thomas’ case:
In Hawaii, with a letter from a doctor certifying Thomas Beatie’s psychological testing and irreversible surgery, he was legally allowed to change his birth certificate from female to male and his name from Tracy to Thomas.
Your legal question is now answered.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Lopez–
Now that my legal question has been answered I should sit down and shut up now?
I still have questions….. but as others have said….. being on the other side doesnt seem very friendly.
Im not saying that everything that he has done he shouldnt be able to do…. Im not saying anything against this couple or their children…. but Ill say this… you and rachel anna’s attitude makes me wonder if I should ask any more questions about this.
It is shameful how you 2 dont want questions asked about a unique situation. Where you upset when Oprah was asking questions too?
why dont you want more questions to be asked?
November 19th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Roger - I didn’t find that my response was rude. You asked about the legalities. I provided the answer. There isn’t much more to say about the legal aspect. You can ask the legal question again. The response will be the same.
November 20th, 2008 at 12:02 am
I guess I dont know what “irreversible surgery” he had… He did have his breasts removed, but that can be reversed with implants.
I guess my opinion is that there should be more of a commitment to changing your gender then some psychological testing.
Would you have more questions if a man grew his hair long, had breast implants, and followed you into the ladies room?
November 20th, 2008 at 12:15 am
Roger - If a male or female followed me into the ladies room I would have a problem with it.
But when a gynandromorph has used the same ladies room I was in, I never had a problem.
Oh, my clubbing days at the Limelight. Nothing like it.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Roger: I just wrote a very long reply to you to respnd to your question and then it somehow disappeared–how do these things happen? OK, let me keep it short this time because it’s late. You are focusing on physical characteristics only and therein lies your confusion. Thomas was born with female external parts, but male chemistry internally. These are the people who end up becoming transgendered as adults. They feel from as young as they can remember, they identify as the opposite sex. Not homosexual, which is attracted to the same sex, but like they are trapped inside the body of the opposite sex. Tests show these people to have a hormonal difference than those born with a congruent gender identity. So when you ask if it’s about taking away or adding body parts, the answer is no, it isn’t. Thomas underwent a partial gender reassignment. Since he and his wife wanted children, he retained his reproductive organs in order to procreate, but his identity through and through is male and always has been. You wrote that there should be more to changing gender than psychological testing. But there is more, it comes from a biological base. Plus what’s wrong with good psychological testing if it lends good information? Anyway, I hope this clears things up at least a little bit for you.
November 20th, 2008 at 6:10 am
@59 and especially #36
I hope everyone will go back and read what Rachel Anna wrote. She should be removed from this thread. She is displaying signs of a low class, disgusting individual who can only express herself through vulgarity.
It is certainly okay to disagree with the way I think but it is not okay, young liberals, to use profanity, call me names because I don’t “see things your way.” You young people have a lot to learn in life. I believe your parents would be ashamed of your behavior. If you were my children, I woulddefinitely hang my head in shame.
Rachel Anna, you have revealed yourself as a very troubled person. I hope you get the help you need soon.
So, let us please stay on the issue. How far do liberals go for the Thomas Beatie’s of the world?
November 20th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Something occurred to me as I read the “dialgue on Thomas Beatie’s surgery, hormones, etc. and how it was hard to understand.
If it is hard for ADULTS to understand think how hard it will be for their children to understand.
November 20th, 2008 at 6:31 am
I want to be clear. I’ve stated it many times. I don’t have a problem with gay couples. My comments are about the children of gay couples…couples like the Beatie family. Gay couples know they will face difficulties just being a couple. Why extend those difficulties to children? We, none of us, know how the children will be affected in these situations. Too early to tell. There are always exceptions when educated, level headed people are involved. Unfortunately, as we have seen from this thread, we aren’t always dealing with people with healthy minds. That is why I will continue to worry about the children’s exposure to this type of environment.
And, yes, I have seen the movie “Guess Who Is Coming To Dinner.” As I remember it, it was clearly about a man and a woman. However, thank you for bringing it up, Joey.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:32 am
#97, “If you were my children, I woulddefinitely hang my head in shame.”
If I was your child, I’m sure I’d be used to it. It seems that your love and approval are conditional. That’s a shame.
#98, “If it is hard for ADULTS to understand think how hard it will be for their children to understand.”
Children don’t care about any of these issues. They care if you keep them safe, feed them, love them and are kind to them. Children only learn to judge and hate from adults. Don’t make me put up a clip of Barbara Walters singing, “Carefully Taught”.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:53 am
#96 Meredith–
I hope this clears things up at least a little bit for you.
Yes thank you it does, I guess when you see someone having a problem that is totally on the other side of what you take for granted, it is tough to get your head around it. (diane10.. children accept new things easier than adults do) sorry…. that needed to be said….
I guess I was putting myself in his shoes, instead of paying attention to how he wore his shoes.
Transgendered people are new to me, even though Im sure there are many people with that physical issue. Stepping away from it it actually makes sense. Thomas Beatie being declared legally a man, does not make me less of a man.
Thanks again Meredith for your compassion and understanding.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:58 am
#99 Diane10–
I want to be clear. I’ve stated it many times. I don’t have a problem with gay couples. My comments are about the children of gay couples
You are quite clear Diane… you do have a problem with gay couples…. you just use children to justify your hate. The fear that you are trying to spread is not based on any facts, but solely in your own mind.
Maybe you are secretly gay yourself, but have suppressed those feelings. Maybe you fear that your husband is and will leave you for another man if they are allowed to marry. Who knows what drives your fear, I doubt you know yourself.
Dont use children to justify your fears…. use facts to squash your fears and enlighten yourself.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:03 am
As you already know, berndoubt, I was referring to the vulgarity used on this thread. I do believe Rachel Anna’s parents would hang their heads in shame. Language like that hers is totally unnecessary.
Children WILL care about these issues when they are old enough to recognize that something is radically different about their Dad who tells them he carried them in his womb.
Children do learn to judge and hate when they live with it. Some are strong enough to break a cycle and move in another direction.
No hate or conditional love in bringing up my conservative family. Children and their environments are important to their mental well being.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:19 am
No, really, language like that is completely necessary. It acts as a safety valve that lets off steam. It can express anger and frustration.
Yes, words can be powerful and even hurtful. In fact, I can think of few that are more hurtful than “I’m ashamed of you.”
November 20th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Language like that is totally unnecessary. It amazes me how you will go out on a limb to support someone you KNOW used bad judgement. How is that working for you?
November 20th, 2008 at 9:39 am
I have tried to post a link twice and its not working, google hermaphrodite.
I found an article that explained during early gestation twins merge leading to having both sex organs. My point was that possible for transgenders the same thing occurs but only in the brain, with no outward signs.
November 20th, 2008 at 9:58 am
I guess I’m like Roger and finding the whole thing a bit confusing. It does take redefining gender as I’ve come to think about it. I’m just tired of hearing “Pregnant! Man!”. That’s the press, of course, just going for ratings.
BW announced Beattie as one of the “ten most fascinating”, didn’t she? Doesn’t having Beattie on the View kind of take away from BW’s “special”? Seems weird that BW would do that.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:16 am
106 june–
I found an article that explained during early gestation twins merge leading to having both sex organs. My point was that possible for transgenders the same thing occurs but only in the brain, with no outward signs.
holy cow!! When I said in post #102 when I said “Stepping away from it it actually makes sense.” that was exactly what I was thinking about…. but I didnt know how to say it in a correct manner. You did…… thanks for reading my mind. Im impressed with both you and Meredith.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:18 am
#21 Kelly - Great post - your post there reminded me of Paul Harvey…..”and that’s the way it was.” You’re a great writer!
November 20th, 2008 at 10:18 am
#105, “How is that working for you?”
Great! Thanks for asking!
You spend your time bouncing between amazed and ashamed. Aren’t you tired, yet?
November 20th, 2008 at 10:40 am
berndoubt, I am not surprised that it works for you to support someone you know has demonstrated bad judgement. This supports my feelings that liberals must resort to name calling when they run up against someone who doesn’t think the way they do. I guess you are just “doing your job.”
November 20th, 2008 at 10:50 am
diane10, I’m praying for you.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:12 am
You don’t believe in the Bible, remember? Your prayers will go unanswered.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:20 am
bigots are hard to reason with or even talk to in normal circumstances. i find it easier to just ignore them after 3 attempts at informative and meaningful debates. children learn what they live.
sadly, the cycle of hate and bigotry will not be easy to break when it’s cultivated within the family unit.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:43 am
I agree with you Heather.
Diane10 ignores what a real Christian is suppose to be like, She only likes to label people instead of using her brain and thinking. All she does is judge others, maybe she’s God.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:47 am
danielle,
she seems to be the type to hide behind a keyboard. highly likely to be a real woman and say such things directly to the people she talks about.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Pat, here it goes. Aren’t they intelligent comments?
November 20th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
diane10,
you remind me of michelle malkin. when all else fails, rather than look within yourself, you question someone’s intelligence.
the last refuge of someone with a losing argument.
November 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Liberals always call republicans names when we don’t agree. I have to question someone’s intelligence when they make stupid liberal statements about Christianity.
I don’t need to look within myself. I’m not trying to change anyone’s viewpoint. I am voicing my personal opinions. I don’t feel like I have a losing argument because I am not arguing to change anyone’s mind.
That’s where you liberals get bogged down…you keep trying to change the way I feel. When I don’t see it YOUR way, you bring out the potty language and start attacking my children. Low rent!!
Michele Malkin? Is she cute? Well, thank you very much!!
November 20th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Malkin is not cute. She has a funky face.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Sorry to hear that, Lopez. Can you find someone else to compare me to? It’s so in keeping with your DNA.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I’m not liberal or conservative, I’m me, and I can have different opinions on a whole host of things, unlike you Diane10. That’s the problem with Republicans, if people don’t see things there way they resort to labeling and name calling. It goes both ways Diane10, you probably think Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity are saints. Heck, you probably think “W”, is smart. Live in your fantasy world. I don’t care what you think, but I know one thing, you better stop judging because, guess what, it happens to be a sin too.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
You asked if she was cute. I said no. By your response I feel like I’m missing something. Or maybe that was a sad attempt as wit?
::shrugs::
November 20th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
You are more than welcome to your opinions, Danielle. I honestly don’t care where you stand on any issues.
Since you brought it up, I am not a fan of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. I’m not even a fan of “W.” I don’t even know what Michele Malkin looks like. What I do know is that I do not judge people on their beliefs and then call them names because they do not share my beliefs.
From where I sit, the judging and name calling has come from the far left on this blog.
And, by the way, I’m glad you are you. It is important to know who you are.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
#112, “You don’t believe in the Bible, remember? Your prayers will go unanswered.”
Um, no, I don’t remember that. In fact, I’ve been quoting it and taught it in Religious Education classes. I’m glad you know that MY prayers will go unanswered, why, because I’m a Democrat?
Have a good day, diane10.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
I have been debating all morning if I should post or not, but I feel I need to. I would like to suggest Diane10 do herself a favor, and go out to the real world, and talk to children of gay couples and see how they felt about growing up with two moms or two dads. I myself grew up with two moms, and I would like to say that I am pretty gosh darn normal, with no lingering emotional problems, was not teased at school, nor am I gay myself…..I was born straight, just like my moms were born gay…you can’t change that. I was raised with some great values and morals, was taught to treat everyone with respect and integrity regardless if I agreed with them or not and that I should be treated the same way. There is a local support group in my area for children of gay parents that I sometimes volunteer at. A vast majority of them do not need this support group because of their parents (although some do, because it doesn’t matter if you have a mom and dad or two dads, there is sometimes dysfunction in the family no matter what circumstances), they need this support group because of the close minded people like Diana10 in this world.
I would suggest, Diana10, that before you go making assumptions about this group of people and declaring that you know how hard their lives will be, why don’t you go to a support group, ask some questions, because you might just find that life is not as horrible as you are making it out to be for these kids.
(I apologize for any typos…I am typing while nursing my son.)
November 20th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Well, it is comforting to know that someone on this blog reads the Bible. I stand corrected. Your prayers will be answered and I’ll be the happy recipient.
And a good day to you.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
I take it then that you would not like for me to pray for you as it would go unanswered since i read the quran. loves it.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
“Your prayers will be answered and I’ll be the happy recipient.”
Yeah, I told God, never mind.