Whoopi Goldberg on McCain’s VP Pick Sarah Palin
View co-host Whoopi Goldberg must be as bored as I am with these last few days of hiatus as she has taken to her WowOwow blog for the second day in a row, this time to discuss John McCain’s Vice Presidential candidate selection, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin.
Whoopi wrote, “Well as I’m watching television this morning, it appears that John McCain may pick Gov. Sarah Palin, of Alaska, to appease all of those angry women — the ones who were going to vote for Hillary and then threatened to vote for John McCain — by just picking a woman. It’s expedient, and should make everybody feel better. After all, what do women actually know? They’ll pick any female, as long it’s not a guy. That kind of thinking is so insulting I don’t know what to say.”
Her blog entry also addressed comments that she received on her previous entry regarding Barack Obama’s nomination. You can read the full entry here.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Well, Whoopi and her Democrats obviously didn’t know the value of having a qualified woman on the ticket. They fumbled and the other team scored. Too bad.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
I don’t like to say it,..but I have the same suspicions as Whoopi.
Although I would love to be wrong.
Perhaps this is how politics have brought/ taught me to think.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
sandy have become a bit bias but i haveto agree with yours and whoopi sentament. it just that i heard a commnetator mention mmcain decide over the period of the DNC the he needed a woman to run with.(not that palin in bad i dont know much about her)
August 29th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
sandy I have become a bit bias but i have to agree with yours and whoopi sentament. it just that i heard a commentator mention Mccain decide over the period of the DNC that he needed a woman to run with.(not that palin in bad i dont know much about her)
August 29th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I think McCain is running a heck of a campaign and would bet my last dollar that after this pick, he’s going to move up in the polls. This woman is smart, successful, and conservative… and the left is going to have to dig pretty deep to find something wrong with her. I bet Elisabeth is as proud of McCain as I am right now!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Pro-choice women who supported Hilary are not going to vote for an anti-choice woman. They liked Hilary and agreed with her positions. Women don’t vote based on gender alone. I agree with you Sandy and mibi.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I feel like McCain just threw the game and as a Dem, I just hope that it’s too late for the GOP to choose a new candidate! I really can’t understand how he came to choose this gal when there are other female Republicans that have a much stronger … well, everything. Can anyone seriously think this VP choice is ready for the oval office should McCain’s age kick in?? Come on!
How does McCain now argue against Obama’s age? his experience? his foreign policy? This would be laughable if it weren’t so frightening. What a bizarre turn-of-events. I hate to say that I wondered if maybe she were blond w/blue eyes. At least that would be some explanation!
August 29th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
“I hate to say that I wondered if maybe she were blond w/blue eyes. At least that would be some explanation!”
LOL!
August 29th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
I do no think mccain is out i think it got more interesting. he is reestablishing himself as a “mavrick” but as i said it may help with republicain but not nessicarily indepnedent or dem women.(i think obama needs to keep having nigths like last night)
am excited for the debate which migth make up some people minds
August 29th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
This latest political stunt proves that McSame is desperately trying to sure up his political base, considering Palin is his political polar opposite within the Repug party.
Interesting Palin info:
Wants to remove Polar Bears from endangered species list.
Supports drilling in ANWAR.
Originally supported “The Bridge to Nowhere” in Alaska
In her seven month of pregnancy (most OBGYN’s discourage flying in the 3rd trimester) she flew from Alaska to Texas to make a political speech. She went into pre-mature labor while still in TX, and chose to fly back to Alaska to give birth to her pre-mature baby.
Things that make yo go - Hmmmm!
Grest choice McCreepy! O_o
August 29th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Today was McCain’s B-day and he gave us Democrats a gift. Thanks, John.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Thanks for the info Yellow4Ro. Sandy W. You may just be right. I just watched a video where Palin asked “what is it exactly that the VP does?”
August 30th, 2008 at 6:48 am
How is a gun & rifle toting mama who is pro-choice, ultra conservative commercial fisherwoman with little experience going to win Hillary Clinton supporters. Whoopi’s right it is such an insult.
Hillary was respected because she worked so hard for her education and throughtout her career. She was weathered and tested and God knows we knew she could handle pressure.
August 30th, 2008 at 8:04 am
worse yet she said she has not really followed what is going on with the war in iraq. scary and yes it is crazy to fly after yout water has broken.
August 30th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Rainlillie -
I would love to see that video clip, could you tell me where I could find it?
Thanks
August 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Nevermind - just found it on youtube. Thanks
August 30th, 2008 at 11:57 am
I wonder how she can be VEEP when she has a 4-month old special needs child - with Down syndrome? hmmmmmm? Special needs kids need a lot of special attention, along with her other 4 children (some who are older).
August 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Wow, why can’t Whoopi articulate her points this effectively on the View?? She must have a ghost writer…
I also feel that this was the Repub. attempt to get the disgruntled Clinton voters, which won’t happen. But I was impressed with this ‘nobody’s poise under pressure. I was expecting some rube after hearing her limited background.
Not saying she’s necessarily up for the job of VP, but really, her limited background isn’t much different than Barack’s. At least she heads a state, whereas he’s a senator, and has been campaigning most of his term, so very limited, at best.
I am truly unhappy with both choices and have never been as conflicted as I am this election year. I guess I like Biden best of the 4 main players…
August 30th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Here’s the video in case you didn’t see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtilB1teksc
Fran, I disagree with you comparing her experience to Obama’s. Obama was right about the war before and after it began. He has met with foreign leaders. Now Bush is following his lead by asking for a timetable and by sending more troops to Afghanistan. He has shown good judgment from day one.
August 30th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
“How does McCain now argue against Obama’s age? his experience? his foreign policy? This would be laughable if it weren’t so frightening.”
Beverly, Beverly, Beverly. Palin has more experience than Obama… however, even if she didn’t, she’s not running for president. You can’t compare her experience to his. They are running for a different office. I mean, if you want to take the “experience” route, we can and you will lose… but we really can’t go that route anyways because she’s not running for president and he is.
I don’t think McCain picked her just because she’s a woman. I think he picked her because he knew he needed a conservative on his ticket to win the conservative vote. As a conservative, she is the first person in this election to grab my attention and I am actually thinking about voting for McCain now. Just as you can’t compare her to Obama, you can’t compare her to Hillary. She and Hillary are opposites. There are actually women in this world who value the lives of unborn children. It may be correct to say that McCain won’t gain the votes of pro-kill women, but he won’t need them when he gains the conservative-Christian vote.
August 30th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
She may not be running for president, but John McCain has a history of health problems. If the phone rings at 3 am who do you want to take the call if the president is unable to, Palin or Biden? I’ll use a GOP talking point, folks who do you trust to keep us safe Palin or Biden?
August 30th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Don’t get pulled into this anti-choice debate. This VP pick is not only about choice , but more importantly it’s about the security of our country.
August 30th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
okay so obama and palin if your going to compare them are about equal in experience. gov for least then 18 months and mayor of a city with less than 8000 people vs 3 years in senate. its a draw. which is why mmcain has to let go the experience arguement a little at least since he is older and his vp has to show they can handle the job of pres more than obama choice. though we dem should not be calling her out like that we should stick to the facts of her record she has
August 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Rainlillie says: “Obama was right about the war before and after it began.”
I keep hearing this, but what is this statement based on?? He wasn’t a member of Congress when the decision to go to war occurred, so he didn’t have an opinion that mattered one way or another.
And regardless of who anyone supports or prefers, this election will finally result in minorities and/or women breaking through the previously white-male-only club for Pres./VP, and that is good for all of us. Only other barrier at this point is religion–all have been Christian so far.
August 30th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
This statement is based on interviews he gave before the war began. Here are a few clips of him and McCain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaxErY9Z-F4.
I think it shows good judgment and it shows that he understands diplomacy. Can you say the same for McCain and Palin ?
When Obama spoke out about the war he was running for the Senate, so he did have something to lose.
August 30th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
You’re still doing it. You can not compare Sarah to Barack. It’s apples to oranges. It’s like comparing Biden and McCain.
All I know is when the phone rings at 3am (which it never has), I want someone with half a brain to answer it. Sarah Palin is the only one of the four who I want to answer the phone in that scenerio. If I have to vote for McCain to get that, I will.
August 30th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Great,you want somone to answer the phone at 3 am who doesn’t know what the hell a VP does and isn’t interested in what is going on in Iraq? Let’s hope she’ll have call forwarding so Biden can take the call.
August 31st, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I just think her experience is a non-issue. It’s like arguing that they sky isn’t blue. To quote Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota on Meet the Press today, “[Alaska] is bigger than the enterprise Obama ran as a staffer in Chicago.” So what if she only governed for 20 months? Obama announced his run on his 143rd day in the senate (by my calculations, that is approx. 4.7 months). If you want to argue experience, I wouldn’t go there because anybody who argues she is not experienced will just be showing that they don’t know what the hell they are talking about and don’t know the facts…. and believe everything they see on the left- leaning news stations. To say that she isn’t prepared to answer the 3am phone call is grasping at straws. She is the only one of the 4 candidates who has executive experience. And to say she doesn’t know what is going on in Iraq is ridiculous. I’m pretty sure that anyone who has a son over there has an idea of what is going on, espcially if they work in a governmental position. And she made a comment one time about not knowing the “day-to-day” job of the VP… probably not the smartest thing she’s said, but I highly doubt that Obama, (or McCain for that matter) have any idea the “day-to-day” routine of being president. She’s going to be attacked in the media, but the truth is, she is what every conservative in America was waiting for.
August 31st, 2008 at 2:09 pm
“I just think her experience is a non-issue.”
That right there, saved me a lot of typing, Thanks.
smile
August 31st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
ANT my dear here a few quotes from palin on Iraq
In an interview with Alaska Business Monthly shortly after she took office in 2007, Palin was asked about the upcoming surge. She said she hadn’t thought about it. “I’ve been so focused on state government, I haven’t really focused much on the war in Iraq,” she said. “I heard on the news about the new deployments, and while I support our president, Condoleezza Rice and the administration, I want to know that we have an exit plan in place; I want assurances that we are doing all we can to keep our troops safe.”
Seven months into the surge, she still either had not formed any opinion on the surge or the war or just wasn’t sharing. “I’m not here to judge the idea of withdrawing, or the timeline,” she said in a teleconference interview with reporters during a July 2007 visit with Alaska National Guard troops stationed in Kuwait. “I’m not going to judge even the surge. I’m here to find out what Alaskans need of me as their governor.”
August 31st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Mibi, my dear, it wasn’t her job as governor of Alaska to be on top of the surge in Iraq. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to be assured that our troops are safe. I know I want that too. As she stated, it wasn’t her job to judge or be involved in any way. Now that she is running for VP, I am sure we will hear her viewpoints on the matter. Keep digging. I’m sure you’ll find something eventually.
August 31st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
ANT I honestly did i not go diggin up something on her. i heared she has not followed iraq and you said that seemed ridiculous for her not to have( i agree with you on that). i had no read the quote ooked i tup and decided to share it. i have no problem with what she said i argee we need safe troops and an exit plan. the problem is she will come out with a view about iraq as vp but the opion she express is likely not going to be her own but that of Mccain and those around him telling her what been going on in there view since she has been to busy to have her own
August 31st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Can Sarah Palin be trusted?
Judge for yourself - LOL!
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/476
Hope this link works, thanks for reading!
August 31st, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Pro-choice women who supported Hilary are not going to vote for an anti-choice woman.
Just one of many pages.
http://www.hillaryclintonforum.net/discussion/showthread.php?t=26179&page=8
Sarah has more executive experience than mcsame, obama & biden combined. As both a mayor and governor she had to make decisions, not vote present, yes, present, no, present. (let’s not forget obama voted “present” over 100 times as IL state senator).
She’s conservative and makes no bones about it. Obama, like all democrats running for president had to track to the middle in the general election, proof that the liberal agenda is not widely accepted.
NRA, pro-life, self-made. Will appeal to males both because she was a runner up to Miss Alaska and her sports prowess and knowledge. Beat an old-white-male republican that was corrupt for governor. How often does someone run against their own party on the mantra of cleaning up corruption.
In germany, she visited the troops, visited AK national guard soldiers deployed to kuwait. Obama decided not to meet with troops in germany because???
Her spouse quit 17 year with BP oil when BP oil entered negotiations with wife’s administration. Obama’s spouse was given 160% raise after he was elected to senate. Obama earmarked $1,000,000 for her employer after her promotion.
I could go on and on.
As far as experience, she’s got more than obama.
How great of a pick is it? Look at the attacks from the left. The right loved the pick of biden.
And to top it off, waiting until the day after obama’s speech to announce it was pure genius. The talking heads on teev spent the day talking about her, forgetting all about obama’s speech.
Obama hs been getting treated with kid gloves, even bill mahr made the connection on his show.
I mean, the coverage after, that I was watching, from MSNBC, I mean these guys were ready to have sex with him….It’s embarrassing.
The days of olbermann and matthews pretending they aren’t partisan hacks are long gone.
Can’t wait for the new shows to start tuesday.
Wow, why can’t Whoopi articulate her points this effectively on the View?? She must have a ghost writer…
Teleprompters. Exactly the reason obama changed his mind about those town hall debates with mcsame.
August 31st, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Michael, I thank you for joining the discussion… I was very outnumbered!
To quote my brother’s text to me: “I could have picked better, but the irritability by the media shows it was probably a pretty good pick.”
I wonder what Whoopi is going to say on Tuesday to Sherri. Remember, Sherri stated that she was voting for Obama because “he looked like her.” She can’t really use that line anymore can she?
August 31st, 2008 at 6:24 pm
She does sound like one ballsy woman. Hurrah for taking on political corruption. There is that troopergate thing though. And I thought hubby quit to take care of the school-age kids, but that he got bored and went back to work and the kids were farmed out to other family? And the pregnancy thing. She was in Dallas, Texas, which has first-rate hospitals. Older pregnancy, Down baby, premature and she decides to fly home? One does wonder if she got a call from home that daughter went into premature labor. Whatever the truth is, it was bad judgment to say ooh my labor has started, I have to return home to deliver. She should have said I just learned that Willow was in an accident, I have to go home. Then the premature delivery could have been attributed to the stress. And bad judgment on the McCain team for not more thoroughly vetting this pick. Good, though, cuz this leaves Meg Whitman free to run for Calif. governor. Lol, and since New Kids on the Block is probably one of the few things that Bitsy is truly giddy about, she’s going to be too excited about what to wear and what to narrate, umm, I mean question to do her homework and watch Fox.
August 31st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
There is that troopergate thing though.
That’s already been debunked hasn’t it?
The investigation into her ex-brother in law started on 4/11/05, she was elected governor on 11/2006.
Here’s a link, notice all the dates are before she was the elected governor.
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/07/21/16/Wooten_suspend_letter.source.prod_affiliate.7.pdf
No doubt the truth, just like obama’s birth certificate will come out soon. Unlike the birth certificate, the liberal media won’t give it much time.
the kids were farmed out to other family?
Is that a shot at all the working women that have others watch their children or just her? I wonder who was watching the obama children as they were both working.
One does wonder if she got a call from home that daughter went into premature labor.
Of course daily kos would put out smears like this. I guess since the right-wingers “asked” the question about obama’s muslim background it’s only fair.
Did you follow the link up above? Look at all the pictures of her, let’s assume the dates are correct. This is a woman that is very active, she runs marathons. She’s no fatso. The family picture has her daughter, does she look 7 months pregnant. And do we need to talk about the high rate of downs syndrome with mothers over 40?
And bad judgment on the McCain team for not more thoroughly vetting this pick.
To assume she wasn’t well vetted is crazy talk, no matter who he picked the left was going to attack them. Mcsame’s campaign has been run much better. From the release of the veep pick after obama’s speech to all the people that obama has had to throw under the bus. Obama is even throwing his own campaign staff under the bus now-
Barack Obama’s spokesman fired off a fast criticism of Republican John McCain’s new running mate Friday, but the Democratic candidate himself quickly stepped in to offer her congratulations and praise.
Obama, who is eager to win over female voters who backed his rival Hillary Rodham Clinton in the primaries, blamed the mixed messages about McCain’s choice, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, on campaign aides with a “hair trigger.”
ap.google dot com/article/ALeqM5g-UQSWkkXyD_Javq_3RKXGziFB4gD92SAFMG1
His staff has a hair trigger, scary.
August 31st, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Lol worried about Obama’s staff having a hair trigger, worry about electing a president with a hair trigger.
Troopergate is not dealt and done with; it has expanded to include her firing the Public Safety commissioner for his declining to fire the brother-in-law.
When she got the phone call/felt her water breaking, she should have just explained her departure for home as a family crisis. Now Texas Obama supporters can say “Texas wasn’t good enough for her son’s birth, Sarah’s not good enough for this country!”
And she should have been vetted for these possible issues, but they fell in love with her bullet positives.
But Tuesday should be fun hot topics. I hope Bill makes a rule that if bitsy resorts to sitting in BWs lap, she will not be allowed to interview New Kids on the Block.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:09 am
@Ant
“There are actually women in this world who value the lives of unborn children. It may be correct to say that McCain won’t gain the votes of pro-kill women, but he won’t need them when he gains the conservative-Christian vote”.
i find this comment to be unnecessary and offensive. I’m pro-choice and very passionate about my reasons why but i won’t stoop to name calling and lower the level of discourse as you have.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:23 am
i would never vote for mccain/palin but i don’t think it’s fair how people have already started criticizing Palin about her pregnancy and her family. And already hearing about the sexist little comments. It’s gross when they do this to any woman -democrat or republican. I wish people would just stick to the real issues…
September 1st, 2008 at 8:12 am
PRIOR POST: Fran, I disagree with you comparing her experience to Obama’s. Obama was right about the war before and after it began. He has met with foreign leaders. Now Bush is following his lead by asking for a timetable and by sending more troops to Afghanistan. He has shown good judgment from day one.
RESPONSE: (TIC) You probably forgot about Palin’s foreign policy experience as Governor of Alaska, which is so close to Russia. (I didn’t make this up - came from McCain’s wife.)
TIC:tongue in cheek
September 1st, 2008 at 8:39 am
Red #40, I agree with you about not trashing Palin for how she chose to handle her pregnancy/birth BUT I am so annoyed at the hypocrisy — she was able to CHOOSE what was right for herself & her family. (Despite medical counsel)
Pro-choice is about having the right and the privacy for a woman to make whatever choice necessary pertaining to her own reproduction. Having 5 children, Palin has obviously benefited from that privacy of choice.
Again, Pro-choice/Anti-choice, these should not be political issues. These are issues to be handled between a woman and her doctor, with the woman’s decision to prevail. And when men can carry a pregnancy (someday no doubt), then they should be afforded the same privacy.
And, I don’t think it’s enough to spout “family values” — one’s priorities should live them out. How do the demands of being VP w/our current crises coexist w/mothering a special needs baby/toddler? I’m all for Live & Let Live but people should Walk Their Talk. Family Values?
I’m thrilled for women to finally make their way to higher office (any woman). And, still I have no confidence in this particular woman in that particular office.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:32 am
We need to set the record straight. Palin does not have five children. She and her hubby have 4 children and 1 grandson [daughter Bristol's child which they are raising as their own]. Palin was never pregnant earlier this year. They faked the pregnancy to avoid political scandal. What a wonderful example of “American family values” the Palins are turning out to be and this is only the tip of the iceberg. Stay tuned folks.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:47 am
@Beverly
I agree with you completely about Palin making the choice that was right for her. I strongly believe that all women should have the right to choose what is best for her. Government should not intefere with women’s bodies.
But i disagree with you about how the vice-presidency might interfere with her raising her special needs child. I think that many parents have to deal with the same or similar situations everywhere. I don’t think that Palin should be rejected or turn down this amazing job offer. It’s up to everyone around her(including Mccain) to support her and her family.
I think that alot of people who are anti-choice believe that feminists are just women who think only about themselves and don’t care for children. But Palin’s situation is what feminists have been fighting for as well- her right to be vice-president of this country and do it with four kids, including a special needs child-.
September 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am
Most Americans are not far left or far right. Bush knew this which is why he ran as a moderate. Obama knows this which is why he is also running as a moderate. Palin is an extremist. She’s against abortion even in cases of incest or rape. I think most reasonable anti-choice people would make an exception in such cases.
Also the majority of Americans are not in favor of overturning Roe V Wade. http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_... The independents are going to decide this election and McCain’s pick may have just cost him those votes. The Independents in 2000 helped McCain surge ahead ,now that he’s picked someone with such extreme views it will turn a lot of voters off. I read an article yesterday that said that McCain really wanted Lieberman, but the powers that be in the RNC wanted him to pick Palin. This shows me that if McCain wins he will be a puppet like Bush.
Obama showed courage and backbone by picking Biden, because the pressure was on him to pick Hilary. This shows me that he will make his own decisions and he will not be bossed around by the party or anyone else.
McCain would have had a better chance of winning if he had of picked Lieberman, because Lieberman is a pro-choice independent. So, Obama supporters should breath a sigh of relief. Let’s hope that Palin makes it through to election day.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am
@rainlillie
I hope you are right.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:02 am
This pick is not only an insult to Hilary supporters it’s an insult to the American people. OMG! She has never met any foreign leaders and doesn’t even know what the job entails. There were plenty of republican women who were far more qualified. He picked her because of her age and because of her gender… It’s sick , sad and pathetic that people would come on here and try to convince others that this woman is ready to be vice president.
Are you kidding me? We’re talking national security. I thought Republicans were big on that… That’s just more proof that party once again has come before country. My mother had five kids and is also a quick learner, knows how to balance her checkbook and was a member of the PTA. Maybe one day she’ll be able to be VP.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:05 am
PRIOR RESPONSE: Red #40, I agree with you about not trashing Palin for how she chose to handle her pregnancy/birth
RESPNOSE: It seems to me that if someone is anti-choice, and believes abortion is wrong, that she didn’t make any choice for which she deserves credit. It’s like choosing to follow any other law. I suppose there is a choice, but it’s not the same as choosing between difficult choices.
Secondly, it seems to me that there is an assumption that all/most/many pro-choice people would have chosen to have an abortion for a Down’s Syndrome child. I don’t think that’s true. I’m fairly certain Hillary would NOT have aborted such a child (based on all the wisdom from being 2/3 the way through Woman in Charge.) I know lots of people who are pro-choice but wouldn’t have aborted their own child, Down’s syndrome or not.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:05 am
I’m sure you have all heard, but to put the debate about Palin’s youngest child to rest:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.daughter/index.html
September 1st, 2008 at 11:07 am
Red,
Think about it, when was the last time that a far right or a far left person won the white house? Bush didn’t go far right until he was elected.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:07 am
PRIOR POST: McCain would have had a better chance of winning if he had of picked Lieberman, because Lieberman is a pro-choice independent.
RESPOSNE: From reading one of my Econ blogs (but can’t remember which one) apparently Romney would support McCain UNLESS he picked Lieberman, and Liberman refused to support a McCAIN/ROMNEY ticket. So he had to go elsewhere. Doesn’t quite explain Palin (scratching head.)
September 1st, 2008 at 11:10 am
“Secondly, it seems to me that there is an assumption that all/most/many pro-choice people would have chosen to have an abortion for a Down’s Syndrome child. I don’t think that’s true.”
Lajet,
I agree. My aunt was 45 when she was told that my cousin would be born with Down’s Syndrome. She’s pro-choice , but she had the baby too. It was her “choice.” I don’t think she should be looked at as a hero or patted on the back. She did what was best for her.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:12 am
PRIOR POST: The independents are going to decide this election and McCain’s pick may have just cost him those votes. The Independents in 2000 helped McCain surge ahead ,now that he’s picked someone with such extreme views it will turn a lot of voters off.
RESPOSNE: I hope you are right, and think you might be. However, I believe the value of hte conservative, religious group is not in their numbers, but in their foot-soldier status. They work the phone banks, show up at rallies, write letters to the editor, give money, etc. And I think that’s why the Republicans cater to them.
Some people’s votes are more important. For every person with enough passion to work for the party, you increase your vote. You can make your vote count more than others too.
Conservativs don’t just vote, they influence lots of others to vote, their way. Go forth and do the same.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:35 am
@rainlillie
yes i see your point. All candidates move to the center once they are close to winning the election.
@Lajet
i agree, i think that there are probably a lot more pro-choicers out there that don’t make themselves heard. I think many of them, including myself when i was younger, took it for granted because we didn’t have to fight for those rights. We need to step it up.
September 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am
I have to laugh because your “superstar” has gotten almost no media coverage this weekend and the talk has shifted to someone else. If McCain had chosen a running mate that the media had reported as being on his “short list” it would have been called predictable and boring (much like Obama’s choice that he kept secret until everyone was sleeping). He chose someone that we’re all talking about and he announced it the morning after Obama’s speech, which was perfect timing for him. He gave the media the morning after the speech to talk about how great it (the speech) was, and then he made his announcement, making them all forget about Obama the Superstar. Since Friday morning, no one has so much as mentioned Obama other than to say what he thought of the pick. Not to mention the fact, that the announcement of a woman came on the heels of a convention by the democrats that praised women all week. I don’t like McCain, but he is running a great campaign. Admit it, we’re all talking about it!
September 1st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
#48 Lajet - My comment wasn’t with regard to Palin’s choice to GIVE birth to a special needs child — I was referring to her having the choice of WHERE to give birth (TX vs AK).
“Choice” isn’t just Birth vs Abortion — taking away “choice” is the sure pathway to other govt reproduction interference. Maybe: enforced family-size, forced sterilization, deciding who can/cannot reproduce, “when” people can reproduce etc. … Further, my point was that with 4 or 5 kids, Palin hasn’t had govt making ANY choice for her. As it should be — for everyone.
Anti-choice is so much bigger than people seem to consider.
BTW, I have a nephew w/severe cerebral-palsy — I know first-hand the demands on the ENTIRE family. I don’t think it’s a matter of Palin being a working Mom but when it comes time to decide “world crisis” or “baby/toddler” how does Family Values not become compromised? I say - maybe one should moderate their views for everyone when they’ve obviously moderated them for their personal situation. It would be different for me if the youngest was at least in 1st grade. (Well, in this case beyond toddler.)
Yes, this is a phenomenal job opportunity. However, in the real world many women must pass on amazing opportunities in the interest of their Family Values. Why tout them with such vehemence if personal sacrifice is simply a matter of circumstance.
Rocks & Glass Houses …
September 1st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
#55 ant - actually all I’m hearing about today is Gustav … guess everyone’s being upstaged by Mother Nature.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
“We need to step it up.”
Red, ITA!
September 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pm
PRIOR POST: Yes, this is a phenomenal job opportunity. However, in the real world many women must pass on amazing opportunities in the interest of their Family Values.
RESPONSE: On this one I have to disagree with you. Women oftentimes do have to pass up phenomonenal opportunities. Dad’s too. (My husband passed up a job because the kdis were in high school) But as Jane Pauley once said (although not an exact quote) so admirably: I’m not a role model for anyone. I have resources most women don’t have.
I think the same is true for Sarah & Twig. The government isn’t going to let Twig go unnourished, unsupervised. Kennedy had small children and paid attention to them. If you’re the kind of person wtih the ambition to be a major politician, you probably aren’t the kind to stay home all day and be a traditional homemaker - regardless of what job you currently have. This doesn’t make it bad. Lots of kids were harmed by mothers who weren’t very good at being home all day. Life is full of variety. IN fact, my understanding is that many people with disabled children are encouraged to send their children for all day services - which are far more intensive than anything a family can provide. As VP, Sarah could afford to have the services brought to her and perhaps have more time with her child.
I have a disabed child. He was in day care very early. I had a career. If I had to do it all over, I’d do it the same way. Day care was great for him. Truth is, as they got older, I worked less.
I think I understand your point about hypocrisy, and probably agree with most of it. Just not on this issue.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:30 pm
“ANT: I have to laugh because your “superstar” has gotten almost no media coverage this weekend and the talk has shifted to someone else.”
I wouldn’t say it is good for Palin, or McM. We now know her own family has some dysfunction and she is prepared to leave a fragile new baby and a pregnant teen for the campaign trail. I am glad she is getting the glare…
September 1st, 2008 at 12:57 pm
PRIOR PSOT: #48 Lajet - My comment wasn’t with regard to Palin’s choice to GIVE birth to a special needs child — I was referring to her having the choice of WHERE to give birth (TX vs AK).
RESPONSE: I missed that. I’m not sure most women (or men) are concerned about the issue of where to give birth, although you’re right, it is good to have a choice. And there is a danger some choices could be taken away - home birth, water birth.
Frankly, in this case, if she really did ahve her water break, then take an 8-hr plane trip, then 1 hour car drive, and this contributed to harm to the baby, I’m not sure Jack McCoy wouldn’t prosecute her for child endangerment, or murder 2 or something. I’m glad things worked out. I find it a bit startling that a woman who loves children and family as much as she seems to (and I do believe she does), and is against abortion, would risk that. I’m pro-choice (but not all the excited or comfortable with it), but if I made it to the 9th month, and my water broke, I wouldn’t get on any darn airplane to go home and have the baby. Hmmmmm. something doesnt add up.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
PRIOR POST: Again, Pro-choice/Anti-choice, these should not be political issues.
RESPONSE: I find the political positions of anti-abortion people curious, but I can see it as a legitimate political-lgal issue. IF you believe life begins at conception - and that is a plausible argument to me - then abortion is murder. And muder statues,and sentencing are an issue for government.
Which begs the question: Why do we need separate laws for abortion. Just charge everyone with murder (Answer: becuase it is different, somehow, and we know it, onboth sides of the argument or else we would be arguing murder statutes, not abortion statutes.)
2nd query: Most anti-abortion people are pro-states right.
Abortion is a medical procedure.
Abortion is arguably a criminal matter.
Medical and crimnal matters are state issues, according to the constitution (unless committed on federal lands.)
So why is abortion a federal issue?
Why isn’t a strict constructionist interpretation advocated? (which would require remanding the issue to the states.)
I probably see more hypocrisy in this stance than in many other issues related to anti-abortion folk.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
How about “life” starts when the formation of cells are able to sustain independence outside of the host body?
Otherwise, wouldn’t there be an argument for not killing germs or viruses too? Or is that just the hierarchy of worth? (humans vs every other living entity)
Here’s a query: Since there is ALWAYS sperm involved - what should the man be charged with?
So far, “choice” seems to be the only solution that let’s everyone work within their own circumstance and belief system.
September 1st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
PRIOR POST: How about “life” starts when the formation of cells are able to sustain independence outside of the host body?
RESPONSE: I see that as another plausible argument, although also somewhat arbitrary.
Query 1: I find distinguishing in utero babies and germs and viruses easy.
Query 2: No. Sperm is involved in creation, not termination.
I agree about choice being the only solution to allow everyone to work within their own belief system. But that has it’s own slippery slope. How do you feel about honor killings? female circumcision. slavery.
September 1st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
“How do you feel about honor killings? female circumcision. slavery.”
IMO, None of those have any comparison to terminating a pregnancy.
Each practice involves an “independent” person victimizing another “independent” person. Once a “conception” becomes “independent” (self sustaining — breathing … whatever), that changes everything. We’re not talking about the victimization of babies independent of a host body.
It’s irrational to me that society doesn’t hold the male involved in an unplanned pregnancy equally responsible for whatever is the outcome of that pregnancy. I suspect “choice” will take on a whole new meaning when (if) that day ever comes.
Lajet - Agree/Disagree — thanks for the discussion!
September 1st, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Lajet, I really appreciate your logic and open-mindedness concerning this issue. Even though I’m not religious and I don’t base my beliefs on the Bible, I am anti-abortion. That being said, I will not vote according to this issue. I even consider myself republican -philosophically, at least. I won’t vote according to this either.
I see Obama as the only intelligent choice. Palin being chosen as VP shows McCain’s incompetent decision-making ability. ITA with Rainlillie: “Are you kidding me? We’re talking national security.”
So hopefully, there are others like me who believe what I do and STILL won’t vote for McCain.
September 1st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
PRIOR POST:“How do you feel about honor killings? female circumcision. slavery.”
IMO, None of those have any comparison to terminating a pregnancy.
Each practice involves an “independent” person victimizing another “independent” person. Once a “conception” becomes “independent” (self sustaining — breathing … whatever), that changes everything. We’re not talking about the victimization of babies independent of a host body.
RESPONSE: I find that a logically cogent argument. I can understand how you separate those from abortion. However, your previous argument was that choice “seems to be the only solution that let’s everyone work within their own circumstance and belief system.” I suggest that honor killing (and mercy killing) and female circumcision and slavery would fit that criteria so that I find it is an incomplete argument.
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PRIOR POST: It’s irrational to me that society doesn’t hold the male involved in an unplanned pregnancy equally responsible for whatever is the outcome of that pregnancy. I suspect “choice” will take on a whole new meaning when (if) that day ever comes.
RESPONSE: This is one of those things that is just unfair, or perhaps better stated, unreciprocal. The woman gets to choose. The man can’t stop an abortion (although I’ve seen it tried - and maybe they have been successful at some point) and the man can’t commit an abortion (if he does it’s probably assault and possibly murder, depending on the state and age of the fetus.) Maybe if the man pays for an abortion you could include him as an accessory, but that’s as far as I can go.
Also, regardless of whether hte man wants an abortion, if the woman doesn’t, he has to pay child support. That’s unfair too, but I don’t care. I don’t see any constitutional right to have sex without consequences. If you don’t want to pay support, be more careful.
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PRIOR POST: Lajet - Agree/Disagree — thanks for the discussion!
RESPONSE: I’m glad you are enjoying the discussion. I’m truly not trying to pick on you. I happen to be pro-choice (reluctantly and uncomfortably. I’m with the Clintons; abortion should be available, safe and rare.) I had a new attitude the day I had a miscarriage. I didn’t lose my fetus. I lost my baby.
I don’t think there is an easy, clear, bright line on the issue of when life begins/abortion. Each argument has a slippery slope and it’s a balancing act of competing interests and beliefs. I think the argument that most influences me is:
If it’s a murder of a child, then prosecute it as murder. And why don’t we prosecute it as murder - something I don’t even hear the anti-abortionists advocate - because we instintively recognize that abortion is different than murder. I can’t articulate why, but that is what happens. Once you recognize that, all the arguments about “if you have an abortion you’re commiting murder” go out the window. If it was true, then we have laws to cover it. And it puts a filter on the argument that life begins at conception - if so, then why not argue for murder statutes to apply. Which I’ve not heard argued and don’t think would ever be accepted.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 am
PRIOR WRITING: That’s unfair too, but I don’t care. I don’t see any constitutional right to have sex without consequences. If you don’t want to pay support, be more careful.
CORRECTION: I don’t know why I wrote that. It’s not how I feel. There are lots of young, immature men and women who make bad decisions.
I also feel badly for a young man who is awkward or immature who gets his girlfriend pregnant (particularly if the girlfriend was somewhat manipulative about it, but not necessarily) and he has no say over whether the baby is born and/or adopted, and has to pay support for the next 20 years based on the mom’s decision.
There are some cases where the young man is so reckless that I don’t spend much thought on the unfairness. There are older men and women who are no longer young and immature (well, maybe they are, but it’s no longer an excuse).
I don’t have a clue how you could ever codify something that would be fair to the mother, father and baby, so I tend to lean on taking care of the child (which means paying child support.)
September 5th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I am sorry, but I have to say something. Our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves right now with disgust and disappointment. This country “One Nation Under God” no longer exists and it sickens me to death. Regarding Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. How can a person call themselves a Christian and vote Pro-Choice?????? Let me think here, You Shall Not KILL!! Thank God the Virgin Mary herself was not Pro-Choice!!
September 9th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Don’t care what Whoopi has to say; never did and never will. Don’t care much about what any celebrity has to say for that matter. They all ride high on the hog because of the the blanket of freedom provided to them daily by those willing to sacrifice much more than they could ever bear.
September 11th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
These celebs need to stick to acting. The intelligent public has absolutely no interest in their take on politics!